ਚੁਕਾਰਅਜ਼ਹਮਹਹੀਲਤੇਦਰਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ॥ਹਲਾਲਅਸਤਬੁਰਦਨਬਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰਦਸਤ॥੨੨॥ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥)

Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai


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Satnaam, Sat Naam, SatiNaam, Sati Naam or ... ?
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: February 08, 2008 05:02AM

vwihgurUjIkwKwlswvwihgurUjIkIPqh






Khalsaa Jeeo,

I know we are very far past mool-mantar however me and a Singh Jee were discussing the following and wanted to get the sangat’s valuable thoughts.

Regarding the padched-related issue of ‘

siqnwmu




’ or ‘

siq




;

nwmu




’, our current VERY LIMITED understanding (we are only just delving into viyaakaaraN), and consequential questions, are as follows:

- If we are to pronounce both words together i.e. accept

siqnwmu




as one word, and derive the meaning as ‘true-name’, surely we must pronounce the siharee…because it is not before the last letter of the word (i.e. placed for viyaakaaraN purposes) and so, unless we can identify a valid rule that says otherwise, we have to say ‘satinaam’ and not ‘satnaam’…? This is in itself an interesting issue regards other instances. Many Singhs say ‘a(n)mrat’ instead of ‘a(n)mrit’ when pronouncing

AMimRq




. I personally say the latter because no-one has yet explained a reason for not doing so…?

- If we are to do pad-ched and place a bishraam between

siq




and

nwmu




, then we have mool-mantar’s meaning beginning as follows: one creator/originator ; truth ; naam….in this case, how would the siharee affect meaning of

siq




and the following/preceding words? Now we would be arguing that it is for viyaakaaraN purposes, as the siharee does appear before the last letter of the word.

- Maybe there is a ‘third-way’: this perspective centres upon the assumption that it is a compound-word i.e. two words, which although having separate and distinct meanings, can be brought together to create a turn-of-phrase, a concept, a new meaning etc. These words are still pronounced as two distinct entities i.e. so we would do a half bishraam when pronouncing them - just like in English we wouldn’t say ‘teamember’; we’d say ‘team-member’.

An example comes straight-after in mool-mantar:

krqwpurKu




u. We don’t say ‘kartaapurakh’ – we say ‘kartaa-purakh’. This is a compound word so a half-bishraam is used to let us identify how it is made –up, the relationship between the two words and ultimately, helps us pronounce it and arrive at a suitable meaning (ps – is the ‘half-bishraam’ known as a ‘jhamkee’?).

This is where it gets a bit complicated - could we still treat the siharee in

siq




as viyakaaraN even if it is a compound word? My current understanding is yes because in

gurpRswid




, which I would also describe as a compound-word, the siharee lets us derive the meaning of

sYBM




;

gupRswid




as self-illuminated/enlightened/realised via the Guroo’s Grace.

Please share your valuable thoughts Khalsa Jeeo.

It goes without saying, as Veer Kulbir Singh has stated many times, that gurbaaNee is agam and abodh and so may Mahaaraaj Jee forgive me for any mistakes above.

Ps - Veer Kulbeer Singh Jee, did you ever manage to talk to Master Jaswant Singh Jee regarding his opinions re: the above?

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2008 10:03AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Kulbir Singh jio,

Hope you will in Chardi Kala. Bhai Sahib jee kirpa karo ਹੁਣ ਅਗਲੀ ਪੌੜੀ ਤੇ ਚੜਾਉ ਜੀ.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: gsingh (IP Logged)
Date: February 28, 2008 11:44AM

"krqwpurKu
u. We don’t say ‘kartaapurakh’ – we say ‘kartaa-purakh’. This is a compound word so a half-bishraam is used to let us identify how it is made –up, the relationship between the two words and ultimately, helps us pronounce it and arrive at a suitable meaning (ps – is the ‘half-bishraam’ known as a ‘jhamkee’?). "

My understand of this is that karta and purkh are seperate, not a compound word. karta means creator, and this is seperate from purkh. I have heard various different interpretations of purkh, 2 of the more common being, god is the only purkh, everyone else is jeev roop istaree, and purkh = pooran.

Most singhs I have talked treat sat naam similarily to karta purkh - as 2 seperate words instead of a compound word. Sat = thir rain vala. I've heard a couple different interpretations of naam, 2 of the more popular being 1) naam = prasidh, 2) akaal purkh is naam roop.

As all you have said, bani is agaaadh bodh...

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Harpartap Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2008 07:16AM

VahegurujikaKhalsa, VahegurujikiFateh!

From what I remember, according to Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, when "sat" is spelt with a sihari at the end, it is commonly performing the role of an adjective - in this it appears to be describing "naam".

However, when "sat" appears with an aunkar at the end the it is performing the role of a noun.

Not sure if this helps.

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: guroo guroo jap (IP Logged)
Date: March 06, 2008 04:19PM

Any other leads on this? If Harpartap Singh is right, that means it should be considered one word or a compound word since 'sat' with a sihari is supposed to be an adjective?

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Outwardly (IP Logged)
Date: April 09, 2008 04:20AM

how did this reach page 3!!!

BUMP!!!

:)

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,
Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 02:52AM

bump

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 12:53PM

Khalsa jeeo, please accept my apologies for not posting the next pauris. I have been pre occupied with something else and by the kirpa of Guru Sahib will resume posting under this thread, in a short while.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: July 06, 2008 09:25AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਕੁਲਬੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀੳ,

vaheguroo-willing, pls continue.

dhanvaad.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: July 08, 2008 08:49AM

The four pauris after Suniya Pauris of Siri Jap jee Sahib are the pauris of Mannai and these pauris are extremely important to understand in order Japp Naam and to realize the greatness of Naam Abhyaas. What does it mean to ਮੰਨੈ? It is not easy to translate this word in one word of English or Punjabi. ਮੰਨੈ means through Mannan. It is a creation of grouping of few words and principles. ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ means at least the following:

1) Primarily it means to do the jaap of Gurmantr. One gets the hukam to Japp the true Naam when one is initiated by the true Guru at the time of Amrit Sinchaar. At that time one hears the Gurmantra. After hearing this Gurmantr from the sacred Rasna (tongue) of the Punj Pyaare, if one starts Japping this Gurmantra with Gurmat vidhi, it called Naam da mannana i.e. ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ.

2) ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ also means to have faith in Naam i.e. to believe that this is the only Naam that is kaliyaankaari i.e. the Naam that will provide salvation and that no other mantra is equal to it it as per the hukam of Gurbani - ਮੰਤ੍ਰਿ ਨ ਦੂਸਰੋ ਧਰਿ. To believe that the jaap and simran of this Mantra can get us anything we want and that this is the only mantra we trust or have faith in is also ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ.

3) I believe that one receives the rewards of japping Naam in proportion to one's understanding and realization through Gurbani of what one can get from Naam. Gurbani states the greatness of Naam in great details. More one knows of Naam and Naami Vaheguru more one wants to do Naam dee Sidhi. This is why paath of Gurbani is a must if one wants to get full results of Naam jaap.


ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ, ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ, ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥
ਕਾਗਦਿ, ਕਲਮ ਨ ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
ਮੰਨੇ ਕਾ, ਬਹਿ ਕਰਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
ਐਸਾ, ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ, ਕੋਇ ॥12॥

ਮੰਨੈ, ਸੁਰਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਸਗਲ ਭਵਣ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਮੁਹਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਨਾ ਖਾਇ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਜਮ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਐਸਾ, ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ, ਕੋਇ॥13॥

ਮੰਨੈ, ਮਾਰਗਿ ਠਾਕ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਮਗੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਪੰਥੁ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਧਰਮ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ॥
ਐਸਾ, ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ, ਕੋਇ॥ 14॥

ਮੰਨੈ, ਪਾਵਹਿ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਪਰਵਾਰੈ ਸਾਧਾਰੁ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਤਰੈ, ਤਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਨਾਨਕ ਭਵਹਿ ਨ ਭਿਖ ॥
ਐਸਾ, ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ, ਕੋਇ॥15॥

Bishraams:

There is bishraam after ‘Manai’ in the beginning of the first four pankitis of pauris 13, 14 and 15. The meaning is “Manan karke’ i.e. by having faith on Naam, by accepting Naam, by Japping Naam.

In the second-last pankitis of these four pauris, the bishraams should be placed as suggested above. One should not say “ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ” together. A bishraam should be placed after ਐਸਾ”. The meaning is that Naam Niranjan Aisa hai (jaisa it is stated above). Naam Naranjan should come together and the meaning is Naranjan Naam i.e. such Naam that is free from the dirt of Maya. Naranjan means free from dirt of maya and it is an adjective of Noun – Naam.

In the last pankiti of each of the four pauris stated above, the bishraams should be placed as suggested above. “ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ” should be pronounced together, without bishraam. ਐਸਾ ਹੈ ਇਹ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ (ਜੈਸਾ ਉਪਰ ਦਸਿਆ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ) ਪਰ ਇਸ ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਦਾ ਉਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਪਤਾ ਲਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਮਨ ਕਰਕੇ ਮੰਨ ਲਵੇ (ਭਾਵ ਮਨ ਕਰਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਆਰਾਧਣ ਨਿਧਿਆਸਣ ਕਰੇ), ਪਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਹੀ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ।
The word koi, is to be pronounced alone and it means such person who realizes mann jaane mann is rare.

In pauri 12, ਕਾਗਦਿ ਕਲਮ should not be said together i.e. a small bishraam should be placed after ਕਾਗਦਿ. The meaning is that pen (kalam) cannot write on paper (kaagad) the greatness of japping and having faith in Naam.


Nasal Sounds:
:

The following words have nasal sound:

Pauri 13: ਚੋਟਾ (nasal sound on the Kanna),
Pauri 14: ਸਿਉ (nasal sound in the end),
Pauri 15: ਪਾਵਹਿ, ਭਵਹਿ (nasal sound on ਹਿ)


Below is a meagre effort to do vichaar of the four pauris of manai:

ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ, ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ, ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥
ਕਾਗਦਿ, ਕਲਮ ਨ ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
ਮੰਨੇ ਕਾ, ਬਹਿ ਕਰਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
ਐਸਾ, ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ, ਕੋਇ ॥12॥

The gatt or the condition, state or greatness of ‘ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਮੰਨੇ ਦੀ’ cannot be described. Gursikhs who, by the kirpa of Guru, are able to do ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ are great. Their ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਮੰਨੇ ਦੀ ਗਤਿ cannot be stated or described.

If one attempts to describe it, he or she has to regret it because he or she miserably fails in this attempt.

If some scholar, resolves to (beh ke) to do vichaar of Mannae, and attempts to write it on paper using pen, it won’t be written on the paper because it is too voluminous to write on paper or papers.

Such (Aisa) is the Naam Naranjan (free of dirt of maya) and (the greatness of Naam is realized only when) someone accepts the hukam of japping (mannana means jappna) Naam with full concentration and full heart, but such individual is very rare (koi).

ਮੰਨੈ, ਸੁਰਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਸਗਲ ਭਵਣ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਮੁਹਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਨਾ ਖਾਇ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਜਮ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਐਸਾ, ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ, ਕੋਇ॥13॥

Through mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), in one’s mind divine surat and divine budh (intelligence) is placed.

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), one realizes the knowledge or all universes and planets.

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), one never has to sustain slap on the face or pain on the face i.e. get dishonoured in this world and the next world by taking births and rebirths.

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), one never has to go to the path of Jammdoots along with them, after death.

Such (Aisa) is the Naam Naranjan (free of dirt of maya) and (the greatness of Naam is realized only when) someone accepts the hukam of japping (mannana means jappna) Naam with full concentration and full heart, but such individual is very rare (koi)..

ਮੰਨੈ, ਮਾਰਗਿ ਠਾਕ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਮਗੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਪੰਥੁ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਧਰਮ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ॥
ਐਸਾ, ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ, ਕੋਇ॥ 14॥

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), the Gursikhs who chant and hear the true Naam do not face any hurdle on this path of Naam i.e. they go unstopped straight to Sachkhand.

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), the Gursikh go to Dargah (Sachkhand) fully honoured and recognized by this world and the next world.

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), this path Naam never gets destroyed. Magg and Chalai mean the same here. Magg does not mean path as many scholars have interpreted it to be. Panth is what means path in this pankiti. Magg means death in Farsi and Chalai mean to go i.e. get destroyed. So in this pankiti, Siri Guru jee is stating that the path of Naam is eternal and will never get destroyed or moved.

Why would the path of Naam never get destroyed? This is answered in the next pankiti. Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), path of Naam on which the Gursikhs walk to Vaheguru is not destroyed because this path is connected to Dharam. Dharam seti Sanbandh (connected to Dharam).

Such (Aisa) is the Naam Naranjan (free of dirt of maya) and (the greatness of Naam is realized only when) someone accepts the hukam of japping (mannana means jappna) Naam with full concentration and full heart, but such individual is very rare (koi)..


ਮੰਨੈ, ਪਾਵਹਿ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਪਰਵਾਰੈ ਸਾਧਾਰੁ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਤਰੈ ਤਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ, ਨਾਨਕ ਭਵਹਿ ਨ ਭਿਖ ॥
ਐਸਾ, ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ, ਕੋਇ॥15॥

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), Gursikhs realize and attain the salvation door i.e. the doorway to Sachkhand.

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), Gursikh not only gets freed himself, but also frees all his or her family. What to talk about family, all friends and relatives up to 21 Kul are given salvation. How are they given salvation? They don’t get salvation automatically but they are blessed with Naam by Vaheguru by bringing them all to the true Guru, they are freed eventually by the same process as the original Gursikh was freed.

Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), Gursikh swims across this ocean of world, but does so only and only if Guru enables the Gursikhs to swim across. ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਤਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਪਰ ਜੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਤਾਰੇ ਸਿਖ ਨੂੰ. Gursikh does not swim across because of his or her own hard work but only and only by the mehar or kirpa of Guru.


Through or by the mannan of Naam (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਮੰਨਣਾ), Gursikh does not have to wander place to place to get the gift (bhikh) of Naam. They have full faith on Naam received from Gurughar and don’t wander place to place, sadhu to sadhu for this daat. They have faith on Naam given by the true Guru. They ‘ਭਵਹਿ ਨ ਭਿਖ ॥‘ i.e. don’t wander (bhaveh) for Bhikh.

Such (Aisa) is the Naam Naranjan (free of dirt of maya) and (the greatness of Naam is realized only when) someone accepts the hukam of japping (mannana means jappna) Naam with full concentration and full heart, but such individual is very rare (koi)..

Baani is Agam Agaadh Bodh. May Guru Sahib forgive our mistakes while doing vichaar of Gurbani.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: sikh (IP Logged)
Date: July 15, 2008 11:35AM

Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
.............................................
siri jap jee sahib or jap sahib jee
exampel; siri sukhmani sahib jee not as siri sukhmani jee sahib
siri ANAND SAHIB JEE not as siri ANAND JEE SAHIB
please please

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: July 15, 2008 05:17PM

urm hello? does anyone else think this is just wrong???

bishrams are where there are dandees(||) or a rahao (in Raaga Kirtan). Theres no other pauses. You have to read a line and take it in as a whole. Meaning emerges automatically. Meaning and words are not seperate. All lines are written in short sloaks. why do you need to put in any pause?

it is wrong because your are distorting the sound according to ones mindset. mind should listen and be elevated to Gurbanis level and not try and bring it down to minds level (not possible). this means you're just interpeting your own minds projections. how earth can you learn anything that way?

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: July 27, 2008 04:42AM

Please read. this is extract about Bhatrihari, his explanation of sanskrit grammar. i think it matches our understanding of language in sikhi. i,e, that word and meaning are not seperate (gur-sabad).

from reading we will understand why we should not insert bishraams, or copy paath down as pad ched or even try and understand lareevar saroop by looking at its parts seperately:

"For Bhartrihari, linguistic meaning cannot be conveyed or accounted for by the physical utterance and perception of sounds, so he puts forth the sphota theory: the theory which posits the meaning-unit, which for him is the sentence, as a single entity. The term "sphota" dates back to Pânini's reference to “sphotâyana” in his treatise Ashtâdhyâyî, however it was Patanjali who explicitly discusses sphota in his Mahâbhâshya. According to him sphota signifies spoken language, with the audible sound (dhvani) as its special quality. In Bhartrihari’s treatment of this concept, while the audible noise may vary depending on the speaker’s mode of utterance, sphota as the meaning unit of speech is not subject to such variations. This is so because for Bhartrihari, meaning is conveyed by the sentence. To explicate this theory, Bhartrihari depends on the root of sphota, namely sphut, meaning “to burst forth…” as in the “idea that spews forth” (in an internal mental state) when a meaningful sound, the sentence as a whole, is uttered.

"The meaning of the sentence, the speech-unit, is one entire cognitive content (samvit). The sentence is indivisible (akhanda) and owes its cognitive value to the meaning-whole. Thus, its meaning is not reducible to its parts, the individual words which are distinguished only for the purposes of convention or expression. The differentiated word-meanings, which are also ontological categories, are the abstracted "pieces" we produce using imaginative construction, or vikalpa. Sphota entails a kind of mental perception which is described as a moment of recognition, an instantaneous flash (pratibhâ), whereby the hearer is made conscious, through hearing sounds, of the latent meaning unit already present in his consciousness (unconscious). The sentence employs analyzable units to express its meaning, but that meaning emerges out of the particular concatenation of those units, not because those units are meaningful in themselves. We analyze language by splitting it up into words, prefixes, suffixes, etc….but this is indicative of the fact that we “misunderstand” the fundamental oneness of the speech-unit. Words are only abstracted meaning possibilities in this sense, whereas the uttered sentence is the realization of a meaning-whole irreducible to those parts in themselves. This fundamental unity seems to apply, also, to any language taken as a whole. Matilal explains: “it is only those who do not know the language thoroughly who analyze it into words, in order to get a connected meaning.” As this scholar suggests, it is rather remarkable that Bhartrihari's recognition of the theoretical indivisibility of the sentence resonates with the contemporary linguistic view of learning sentences as wholes (at a later stage of development we build new sentences from learned first sentences through analogical reasoning).

[www.iep.utm.edu]

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: July 27, 2008 10:30AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Kulbir Singh jio,

"One should not say “ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ” together. A bishraam should be placed after ਐਸਾ”."
This is interesting. Keep up the seva.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: July 30, 2008 10:43AM

The next four pauris (pauri 16 to 19) of Siri Jap jee Sahib open many spiritual secrets to the seeker. The contain observations of this world by Guru Sahib and talks about the creation of Vaheguru.

Let’s first look at Pauri 16. The subject in the first four pankitis of this pauri is the continuation of the subject in the previous 8 pauris (4 pauris of suniai and 4 of manai). The subject changes with the fifth pankiti.

The word ‘Panch’ here refers to those indivuduals who have been described in the preceding 8 pauris i.e. Gursikhs have done ‘sunana’ of Naam and ‘manana’ of Naam. Such individuals have been called ‘Panch’ by Guru Sahib.


ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣ, ਪੰਚ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥

Panch are accepted in the Dargah (darbar, court of Vaheguru in the next world) and the Panch are deemed supreme there.

ਪੰਚੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ, ਦਰਗਹਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥

The Panch receive honour at the Dargah.

There is nasal sound at the end of ਪਾਵਹਿ। ਇਸ ਦਾ ਉਚਾਰਨ ਪਾਵਹੇਂ ਵਾਂਗ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।


ਪੰਚੇ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਦਰਿ ਰਾਜਾਨੁ ॥

The Panch are treated (or appear) at the darbar (of Vaheguru) as kings. In other words, the Panch are given the treatment befitting kings, at the darbar of Vaheguru.

Many scholars have done the meaning that the Panch look beautiful at the darbar of Rajaan i.e. Vaheguru. They interpret the word ‘Rajaan’ as Vaheguru and ‘Dar Rajaan’ as the darbar of Rajaan Vaheguru (ਰਾਜਾਨੁ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ) but I don’t know how they can derive this meaning when there is an aunkad at the end of ‘Rajaan’. This aunkad at the end of ‘Rajaan’ does not allow us to derive the meaning of ‘Rajaan de dar uppar’. The preposition ‘de’ or ‘ke’ after ‘Rajaan’ cannot appear if there is an aunkad there. ਰਾਜਾਨੁ ਦੇ ਨੱਨੇ ਨੂੰ ਲਗਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਔਂਕੜ ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਸੰਬੰਧਕੀ ਪਦ ‘ਦੇ’ ਜਾਂ ‘ਕੇ’ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿਣ ਦਿੰਦਾ। The only meaning one can think of in this case is that the word ‘Rajaan’ is being used with ‘Panch’ and not with ‘Vaheguru’.

There is nasal sound at the end of ਸੋਹਹਿ। ਇਸ ਦਾ ਉਚਾਰਨ ‘ਸੋਹੇਂ’ ਵਾਂਗ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।


ਪੰਚਾ ਕਾ, ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥

Panch have their concentration on ‘Gur’ alone. The word ‘Gur’ here represents the Naam Gurmantra of the house of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. The Panch keep their dhyaan on Naam-Gurmantra alone.

There is nasal sound at the end of ਪੰਚਾ



Here on the subject changes a bit. The prevous four pankitis had subject material that was same as the preceding 8 pauris but here on the subject has changed to the
creation of Vaheguru.

ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਕਹੈ ਕਰੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
ਕਰਤੇ ਕੈ ਕਰਣੈ, ਨਾਹੀ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ ॥

In these pankitis, Siri Guru jee talks about infinity of Vaheguru and his creation.

ਜੋ ਕੋਈ, ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰੇ ਤੇ (ਤੇ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰਕੇ) ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਹੇ (ਜਾਂ ਕਹਿਣ ਦਾ ਜਤਨ ਕਰੇ) ਤਾਂ ਕਰਤੇ ਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਤੇ ਦੇ ਕਰਣੇ ਦਾ ਸ਼ੁਮਾਰ (ਅੰਤ) ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ।

If someone, tries to do vichaar or describe this vichaar of Vaheguru or his doing (what he has done i.e. his creation), one cannot do it i.e. it cannot be brought into counting. Shumaar means counting. Vaheguru cannot be comprehended nor can his doing or creation be fathomed.

The word ਕੈ here means ‘and’, not ‘of’. The meaning is Creator and his creation (karne).

The ‘sassa’ of ਸੁਮਾਰੁ has vishesh dhuni i.e. is pronounced as sh and not as s.


There was a belief that the Earth is supported by a bull. Siri Guru jee explains here that the bull that is supporting the Earth is Dharma which is the product of Daya and the product of Dharma is Santokh (contentment) which maintains peace and total control in the world.

These pankitis give us very important spiritual principles. Daya (compassion) is the pre-requisite to having Dharma and before one can have ‘santokh’ (contentment) one must have Dharma. Dharma could be defined as total principles of Gurmat including Rehti, morality, and Naam. As for Daya, this has to do with compassion, not of the jeev but the compassion that Vaheguru and Satguru jee has for their creation. When Deena-Naath, Daya-Nidh, Daya-Ghar Vaheguru has daya in his mind for a certain jeev, only then that jeev realizes the true Dharma of Gurmat and only then true Santokh is attained by this jeev.

In these pankitis, Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee has pinpointed that the power that holds the Earth (and the universe) is Dharma. So what is this Dharma that holds the Earth. In Siri Sukhmani Sahib, Siri Panchmesh Pita jee - Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee – make it clear that what holds the universe and different planets together in a system is the jyot-form of Naam. Please refer to the following pankitis:

ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੰਤ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ॥

In Siri Sukhmani Sahib, Siri Guru jee makes it further clear in the following pankitis that the greatest Dharma or the Dharma acceptable to Guru Sahib is Naam:

ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟ ਧਰਮੁ ॥
ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਕਰਮੁ ॥

In the light of these pankitis, we can safely draw the conclusion that the Dharma referred to in Siri Jap jee Sahib in fact is Naam and Santokh is the product of Naam as stated in Mundawani too.

Now let’s do pankiti-dar-pankiti arth vichaar of these 6 pankitis:

ਧੌਲੁ ਧਰਮੁ, ਦਇਆ ਕਾ ਪੂਤੁ ॥

(What holds the Earth is) Dharma (Naam) which is the product of compassion (of Vaheguru for his jeevs)


ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਥਾਪਿ ਰਖਿਆ, ਜਿਨਿ, ਸੂਤਿ ॥

And that Dharma which has created Santokh (through which) the whole creation is tied in the control (soot of Vaheguru).


ਜੇ ਕੋ ਬੁਝੈ, ਹੋਵੈ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ॥

One who realizes the above stated truth becomes Sachyaar i.e. Truthful (in the sense that he is cleansed of the falsehood of maya).


ਧਵਲੈ ਉਪਰਿ, ਕੇਤਾ ਭਾਰੁ ॥

But for ones who don’t agree with Guru Sahib and maintain that the bull (and not Dharma) is holding the Earth, Siri Guru jee states that in such case as bull holding the Earth, how much weight can it hold i.e. there is massive weight to hold.


ਧਰਤੀ ਹੋਰੁ, ਪਰੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਹੋਰੁ ॥

There is Earth below this Earth (for the bull to stand on), and there are more and more Earths beyond (and below) that.


ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਭਾਰੁ, ਤਲੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਜੋਰੁ ॥

There is weight on the bull who is at the lowest level supporting Earths above him. Who is supporting the bull at the lowest form. In other words, no one. Therefore this theory of a bull holding the Earth is mythical.



Hereon, the subject matter changes slightly. Siri Guru jee talks about the creation now.

ਜੀਅ ਜਾਤਿ ਰੰਗਾ ਕੇ ਨਾਵ ॥

The creatures on Earth are of different castes, creeds, colours and names.

The word ਕੇ here means ‘many’ and not ‘of’. This word is the adjective that goes with all other four plural nouns namely jee, jaat, ranga and naav.

There is nasal sound at the end of ਰੰਗਾ। ਮਤਲਬ ਹੈ ਕਈ ਰੰਗਾਂ ਦੇ। ‘ਕੇ’ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਹੈ ‘ਕਈ’।

ਸਭਨਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਵੁੜੀ ਕਲਾਮ ॥

Their destiny has been written by the ever-moving pen (Kalam) of Vaheguru.


ਏਹੁ ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਿ, ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ ॥

If someone, (somehow) realizes the written huge corpus of destiny.


ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਕੇਤਾ ਹੋਇ ॥

Then imagine how large, huge this written account would be i.e. it would be beyond writing.


ਕੇਤਾ ਤਾਣੁ, ਸੁਆਲਿਹੁ ਰੂਪੁ ॥

Vaheguru’s power is unlimted and his form is beautiful.


ਕੇਤੀ ਦਾਤਿ, ਜਾਣੈ ਕੌਣੁ ਕੂਤੁ ॥

His gift (of Naam) is unlimted and infinite; who can imagine how great it is.


ਕੀਤਾ ਪਸਾਉ, ਏਕੋ ਕਵਾਉ ॥

He created the whole visible world through his one Bachan i.e. Naam. What is this Kavayo through which he created the creation? This has been elaborated in further detail in the first pauri of Siri Asa kee Vaar:

ਆਪੀਨ੍‍ੈ ਆਪੁ ਸਾਜਿਓ, ਆਪੀਨ੍‍ੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਾਉ ॥
ਦੁਯੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਸਾਜੀਐ, ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥

In the above pankiti it’s clear that first Vaheguru established himself and created Naam. Then secondly, he created the kudrat i.e. creation and establishing himself on the throne, he looked at this creation extremely pleased.

ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਹੋਏ, ਲਖ ਦਰੀਆਉ ॥

From this bachan or hukam which infact is Naam, many life-rivers were created. Dariayo here does not mean rivers but currents of life i.e. jeev i.e. creatures.



ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਵਣ, ਕਹਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

ਮੇਰੇ ਵਿਚ ਕੀ ਕੁਦਰਤ (ਤਾਕਤ) ਹੈ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਬਾਰੇ (ਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ) ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਹਾਂ। ਫਾਰਸੀ ਵਿਚ ‘ਕੁਦਰਤ’ ਦਾ ਭਾਵ ਤਾਕਤ ਵੀ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਆਮ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਕੁਦਰਤ ਦਾ ਭਾਵ ਆਪਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਕ੍ਰਤੀ ਤੋਂ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਪਰ ਇਥੇ ਕੁਦਰਤ ਦਾ ਭਾਵ ਤਾਕਤ ਹੀ ਸਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ।

What is my capability that I may do vichaar about you.


ਵਾਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ ॥

ਮੇਰੇ ਤੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਇਕ ਰੋਮ (ਵਾਰ, ਵਾਲ) ਵੀ ਵਾਰਿਆ ਭਾਵ ਵਰਨਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ।

I cannot even describe one hair of your form i.e. I can’t explain even tiny bit of your being.

For many years I kept thinking what would be satisfactory meaning of this pankiti. Most scholars have done the meaning that I cannot sacrifice unto you, O Vaheguru, even once. But this expression does not relate to the previous pankiti. Furthermore, this is not an expression expressed anywhere else in Gurbani and is not used in Punjabi or Hindi either. On the contrary, the expression used is that May I be sacrifice to you, O Vaheguru, numerous times. What does it mean that I can’t sacrifice to you even once? I have always been unsatisfied at this interpretation of this pankiti.

I agree with the Sampradayak meaning of this pankiti i.e. the one stated above. The meaning of ‘Vaar’ has been derived to be one rom or one vaal i.e. one hair. Vaariya means to describe. When doing this meaning, one should remember not to place a nasal sound at the end of ‘jaava’ since it is not a verb for first person but for third person.

The meaning done above fits quite well with the previous pankiti. In the previous pankiti, Siri Guru jee is stating that ‘what is my capability that I may do vichaar about you’. Naturally the next pankiti can be interpreated as ‘I cannot describe even one hair of your form i.e. I can’t explain or describe even tiny bit of your being.

ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ ॥

ਜੋ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਚੰਗੀ ਲਗੇ (ਭਾਵੈ) ੳਹੋ (ਸਾਈ) ਕਾਰ (ਕੰਮ) ਭਲੀ ਹੈ।

What you like, that work or task alone is good.


ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥16॥

ਤੂੰ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਹੀ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਹੈਂ, ਹੇ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ।

You are always safe i.e. eternal, O formless one.

Guru Sahib alone knows the ultimate reality. This is just a meagre attempt to understand baani.


Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: July 31, 2008 05:08AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਕੁਲਬੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀੳ,

pls can you offfer your thoughts:

"
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਕਹੈ ਕਰੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
ਕਰਤੇ ਕੈ ਕਰਣੈ, ਨਾਹੀ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ ॥
The word ਕੈ here means ‘and’, not ‘of’. The meaning is Creator and his creation (karne).
"

- veer jee, what is the grammatical reason for it not being able to mean 'of'? i.e. 'the creator of the creation , cannot be counted/assessed'.


"
In these pankitis, Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee has pinpointed that the power that holds the Earth (and the universe) is Dharma. So what is this Dharma that holds the Earth. In Siri Sukhmani Sahib, Siri Panchmesh Pita jee - Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee – make it clear that what holds the universe and different planets together in a system is the jyot-form of Naam. Please refer to the following pankitis:
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੰਤ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ॥
"

- veer jee, what makes you think it is jyot-form of naam and not sound-form of naam? this is a subject i know very little about and i would love for someone to talk more about this.

"
ਵਾਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ ॥

ਮੇਰੇ ਤੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਇਕ ਰੋਮ (ਵਾਰ, ਵਾਲ) ਵੀ ਵਾਰਿਆ ਭਾਵ ਵਰਨਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ।
"

- what does ਜਾਵਾ exaclty mean here, if we take-on the sampradayak meaning?

pls may vaheguroo jee continue to let us benefit from this seva.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: July 31, 2008 07:30AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

Atma Singh jeeo,


Quote:
"
ਜੇ ਕੋ, ਕਹੈ ਕਰੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
ਕਰਤੇ ਕੈ ਕਰਣੈ, ਨਾਹੀ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ ॥
The word ਕੈ here means ‘and’, not ‘of’. The meaning is Creator and his creation (karne).
"

- veer jee, what is the grammatical reason for it not being able to mean 'of'? i.e. 'the creator of the creation , cannot be counted/assessed'.

The word ਕੈ has both meanings i.e. 'of' and 'and' and here I think it means 'and'. Here it makes more sense to interpret it as both 'karte ke' and 'karte kai karne ke' i.e. of creator and of his creation. Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee in Siri Jap jee Sahib has said a lot more than the words written. Behind each word, there is so much hidden. From the 'laam' of 'karte' you can derive the meaning of 'de'. Therefore there is no need to derive the meaning of 'de' from 'kai' too.


Quote:
"
In these pankitis, Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee has pinpointed that the power that holds the Earth (and the universe) is Dharma. So what is this Dharma that holds the Earth. In Siri Sukhmani Sahib, Siri Panchmesh Pita jee - Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee – make it clear that what holds the universe and different planets together in a system is the jyot-form of Naam. Please refer to the following pankitis:
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੰਤ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ॥
"

- veer jee, what makes you think it is jyot-form of naam and not sound-form of naam? this is a subject i know very little about and i would love for someone to talk more about this.

There are two kinds of sounds - worldly sound and Anhat Sound (the Sachkhandi sound). It is my faith that the jyot form of Naam has both sight and sound of Sachkhand. The Naam has feeling too and taste as well. But all these sights, sounds, feelings, tastes are Sachkhandee (ilaahi) and not worldly. The worldly sound that has a frequency of whatever hz cannot be the power that holds the world. That sound of Naam, that vibration of Naam, that form of Naam, that sight of Naam which holds the universe is Sachkhandi.

Quote:
"
ਵਾਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ ॥

ਮੇਰੇ ਤੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਇਕ ਰੋਮ (ਵਾਰ, ਵਾਲ) ਵੀ ਵਾਰਿਆ ਭਾਵ ਵਰਨਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ।
"

- what does ਜਾਵਾ exaclty mean here, if we take-on the sampradayak meaning?

ਜਾਵਾ here should be pronuonced withot bindi, if you understand this pankiti as explained in the above quote. ਜਾਵਾ here means 'ja sakda'. ਮੇਰੇ ਤੋਂ ਵਾਰਿਆ (ਵਰਨਣ) ਨਾ ਜਾਵਾ

(ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ) ਇਕ ਵਾਰ (ਇਕ ਵਾਲ, ਰੋਮ)।

If you understand this pankiti as I cannot be sacrificed unto you even once, then you should pronounce ਜਾਵਾ with nasal in the end.


Bhul chuk dee maafi.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: September 12, 2008 10:12AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Kulbir Singh jio,

Bhai Sahib jee kirpa karo ਹੁਣ ਅਗਲੀ ਪੌੜੀ ਤੇ ਚੜਾਉ ਜੀ. This is our humble benti if you can continue this topic on priority. We understand you might be very busy in your schedule but just like to see the completion of whole Japji Sahib.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 
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