ਰਹਿਣੀਰਹੈਸੋਈਸਿਖਮੇਰਾ॥ ਓੁਹਸਾਹਿਬਮੈਉਸਕਾਚੇਰਾ॥

Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai


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Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: khalistan_zindabaad (IP Logged)
Date: December 04, 2007 08:16AM

Fateh,

below is santhia done by damdamitaksal, baba mohan singh does the parchaar and santhia in it, as bhai kulbir singh jee respects baba jee as a puuran gursikh as stated in earlier posts, i thought i would put this up for the sangat to look at.

[www.gurmatveechar.com]

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: December 04, 2007 11:52AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ka fateh

Bhai Rashminder Singh jio,

There is a Saral Steek of Nitnem by Bhai Joginder Singh Jee Talwara and also Gurbani ucharan books in different parts. Besides the keertan seva Bhai Sahib have done extensive research on Ucharan, Bishrams although he also done arths for some Banis but if one can read through the Saral Steek of nitnem then understanding and ucharan becomes Sudh day by day. If you can take this seva to distribute to those Singhs it will really make a big difference next time when they do nitnem. This is from our personal experience. Bhai kulbir Singh jee is doing a very exclusive seva online which we have never seen before. Guru Sahib Bhai Sahib jee nu hor Bakhshisha karan.

Guru Mehar Karay,

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2007 09:05AM

The fifth pauri of Siri Jap jee Sahib is very hard to understand. Some pankitis in this pauri have been interpreted in many different ways by different scholars. In the fear of Satguru jee, this daas will try to interpret this pauri:


QwipAwnjwiekIqwnhoie]





thhaapiaa n jaae; keethaa n hoe ||

Thaapna means to establish and Keeta means to do or the done. In this pankiti Siri Guru jee is stating that the Parmatma (God) is so beyond all his creation that he cannot be established on a seat or position by anyone and he (or anyone other than him) couldn’t have been (or was not) created by anyone.



AwpyAwipinrMjnusoie]





aapae aap; nira(n)jan soe ||

He is “Aape Aap” i.e. he is self-created and he is “Naranjan” i.e. beyond the maya. The word “Naranjan” is made of two words “Nir” and “anjan”. Nir means without and “Anjan” literally means surma that women put in their eyes but over here it means the dirt of maya.


ijinsyivAwiqinpwieAwmwnu]





jin saeviaa; thin paaeiaa maan ||

Whoever has served (through Naam) him, has received respect and honour in return.


nwnkgwvIAYguxIinDwnu]





naanak, gaaveeai gunee nidhhaan ||

Using his Mohar “Nanak”, Siri Guru jee is stating that (Since one is honoured serving him, therefore) we should sing the praises of treasure of good qualities i.e. Parmatma Vaheguru.


gwvIAYsuxIAYminrKIAYBwau]





gaaveeai, suneeai, man rakheeai bhaao ||

In the previous pankiti Siri Guru jee is instructing us to sing the praises of Guni-NIdhaan Vaheguru. In these two pankitis on Guru Sahib explains the how to do it and what reward one would receive doing so.

One should sing his praises and Naam, one should listen to his praises simultaneously at the same time and one should have love for Vaheguru at the same time.

This pankiti actually is stating the whole technique of Japping his Naam and doing Paath of Gurbani. While doing Paath and Japping Naam, one should utter Naam or Gurbani (whether audibly or in the mind) and at the same time listen to what one has said. Doing these two functions, one should keep immense love in one’s mind for Vaheguru. This is the technique of praising him. No picture is needed to be kept in one’s imagination. No aasan (sitting posture) is required. All one needs to do is what’s stated above. As the matter of fact, if one does these three functions with full concentration one just cannot have any saved concentration for visualization.


duKuprhirsuKuGirlYjwie]





dhukh parehar, sukh ghar lai jaae ||

The result of doing the aforementioned is that the seeker who does this meditation of Naam and Gurbani, absorbs or stops Dukh (sorrow) and brings divine bliss to one’s heart (mann or ghar).

If one brings faith on these preceding two pankitis, then one needs not do any other worldly effort to reduce or eradicate sorrow. All that’s required is to do what’s mentioned above.


gurmuiKnwdMgurmuiKvydMgurmuiKrihAwsmweI]





guramukh naadha(n), guramukh vaedha(n), guramukh rehiaa samaaee ||

The word “Gurmukh” has following Five meanings in Gurbani:

1) Mukhi Guru i.e. chief Guru – Vaheguru himself.

2) Satguru the Guru form of Vaheguru i.e. Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. “Gurmukhi Kal vich Pargat hoya”.

3) Such person, who’s mukh (face) is towards Guru i.e. a true Gursikh.

4) “Gurmukh” also means ‘through Guru’ or ‘through the grace of Guru.

5) When “Gurmukh Naam” appear together, it means Gurmat Naam i.e. the Naam Gurmantra of the house of Guru Nanak Dev jee and in such instances this word should be treated as a compound word.

In this particular pankiti the word “Gurmukh” means Vaheguru. Many have interpreted this word as meaning number 4 above but it does not seem appropriate here. The meanings are clear:

Gurmukh (Vaheguru) is the divine celestial Naad (music, anhad shabad) that pervades the whole universe, Gurmukh is the divine knowledge (Ved means Gyaan or knowledge) and Gurmukh himself is present everywhere i.e. “Rahiya Samaayee”.



gurueIsrugurugorKubrmwgurupwrbqImweI]





gur eesar, gur gorakh baramaa, gur paarabathee maaee ||

Gur Parmeshar, the Guru of all, is for us Ishar (Shiv jee), Gurmukh alone is Vishnu the keeper of this world (Go + Rakh = GoRakh; Go means world and Rakh means keeper or preserver), Guru alone for us is Brahma and Guru alone is Parbati, Lakshmi and Saraswati. Parbati is the consort of Shivjee, Ma i.e. Lakshmi is the consort of Vishnu jee and Saraswati is the consort of Brahma jee.

In Hindu religion the main deities are Shiv jee, Vishnu jee, Brahma jee, forms of Parbati e.g. Kaali, durga etc, Lakshmi and Sarawati. For a Gursikh, Vaheguru alone is worthy of worship and in his worship all worships are included. A Gursikh does not worship anyone else since Gurmukh’s (Vaheguru’s) worship encompases all.

Some scholars place a bishraam as follows:

gur eesar, gur gorakh, baramaa gur, paarabathee maaee ||

They keep “Gur” with Brahma but if we do so, then we inadvertantly say that Guru for us is Iswar, Gorakh and Brahma but Parbati is our Maayee i.e. our mother. This is totally against Gurmat. The word “Gur” must go with “Parbati Maayee” to get meanings according to Gurmat.

Pronounciation: There should be a bindi under sassa of “Ishar”.


jyhaujwxwAwKwnwhIkhxwkQnunjweI]





jae ho jaanaa, aakhaa naahee, kehanaa kathhan n jaaee ||

If I try to say about Vaheguru, I can’t do it. I can’t describe or say him. He cannot be described he is beyond saying (kehna) and description (kathna).

Pronounciation: Bindi on Oora of “Hau”, end of “jaana”, end of “Aakha”


gurwiekdyihbuJweI]





guraa eik dhaehi bujhaaee ||

Guru (plural out of respect), has realized me one thing (next pankiti)

Pronounciation: Nasal sound at the end of “Gura”


sBnwjIAwkwiekudwqwsomYivsirnjweI]5]





sabhanaa jeeaa kaa eik dhaathaa; so mai visar n jaaee ||5||

That he alone is the giver of all creatures, May I never forget him (his Naam).

Many scholars are divided over how to pronounce “Gura”. Some out of respect say “guraan” i.e. place bindi in the end of Gura while others consider this word to be a sambodhan i.e. addressing Guru and therefore don't place a bindi at the end of this word. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has written in detail about this pankiti and he suggests that we should pronounce this word as a nasal sound i.e. place bindi in the end of it. Then the meaning will be as described above.

Pronounciation: Nasal sound at the end of “Sabhna”, “Jeeya”

Gurbani is agam agaadh bodh. Guru Sahib galtiyaan maaf karan.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Hargurmit (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2007 01:21AM

Great Seva, Keep it up Bhai Sahib.

thank you
hargurmit singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Hargurmit (IP Logged)
Date: December 24, 2007 01:09AM

Looking forward to the next post on this..please let us keep up the momentum and complete this very important project..thank you veer Kulbir Singh jee

respectfully
Hargurmit Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 08:45AM

The sixth pauri of Siri Jap jee Sahib is a short one containing only 5 pankitis. The last two pankitis are same as the last two pankitis of the previous pauri. This proves that pauri 5 and pauri 6 are related in some way and the centre theme of these pauris seem to be the last two pankitis.

This pauri gives us a very valuable lesson. There is no point in doing such karma or actions that don’t bring us spiritual benefits. A lot of people around the world go to pilgrimages but Guru Sahib here makes it clear that going to Teeraths (pilgrimages) is only of any use if doing so pleases Vaheguru; otherwise there is no point of doing such futile acts.




qIriQnwvwjyiqsuBwvwivxuBwxyiknwiekrI]





theerathh naavaa, jae this bhaavaa; vin bhaanae, k naae karee ||

I may bathe at teeraths (holy places) only if by doing so I may be acceptable to him; otherwise, without being acceptable to him, why should I perform such bath. 'naae' is a noun meaning bath and not a verb here.

‘naavaa’ and ‘bhaavaa‘ should be pronounced with nasal sound in the end. ‘karee’ too should be pronounced with nasal sound on bihaari in the end. These three words are verbs and the doer of these verbs is in first person. For this reason the nasal sound is necessary.

Another important thing to note is that the ‘nanna’ of ‘naava’ and ‘naae’ should be pronounced with special weight. Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwalay have suggested that this word be pronounced with half haaha below nanna which is absolutely correct. Please refer to book Gurbani Paath Darshan for reference.




jyqIisriTaupweIvyKwivxukrmwikimlYleI]





jaethee sirat(h) oupaaee, vaekhaa; vin karamaa, k milai, lee ||

All the universe that you have created and that I see (vaekhaa); from it, without having karma of good fortune, what can be received (milai), and what can I take (laee).

There should be a small jamkee (pause) after ‘milai’. The nasal sound should be pronounced at the end of ‘laee’ because the doer of this verb is in first person. For the same reason ‘vaekhaa’ should be pronounced nasal in the end. The kanna of ‘karma’ should be pronounced nasal because this word is a plural and has a preposition in the end (vinn karma tau).



miqivicrqnjvwhrmwixkjyiekgurkIisKsuxI]





math vich rathan javaahar maanik jae eik gur kee sikh sunee ||

One would find precious (thought-roopi) jewels and precious stones in one’s intelligence, if only one listens to the Guru’s divine Sikh i.e. Gurmantr-roopi Sikh (sikhiya, updesh). 'Sikh' here means updesh or sikhiya and not disciple.

The word ‘Sikh’ where it appears in the masculine gender, it has the meanings of a disciple but when it comes as feminine gender, it means Sikhiya, Updesh. While ‘Sikhiya’ or ‘Updesh’ normally mean a lesson but in Gurbani for the most part it means Gurmantr of Guru. Numerous examples can be given to prove this point but for Gursikhs just one example is good enough:

Updesh Guru Har Har Jap Jaapai, Sabh Kilbikh Paap Dokh Laih Jaave||
(Clearly in this pankiti updesh means Gurmantra).

Now the question arises as to how would one tell if the word ‘Sikh’ is in masculine gender or in feminine gender. Here are some ways to find out:

1) The adjoining kiriya (verb) would tell the gender. In this particular example the kiriya “sunee” proves beyond doubt that this word ‘Sikh’ here is feminine gender and thus means sikhiya.

2) Another point to note is that the related preposition would be in feminine gender. In this case it says “Gur kee Sikh” and not “Gur ka Sikh”. The feminine gender preposition ‘kee’ proves that ‘Sikh’ is a noun in feminine gender and thus means Sikhiya.

3) ‘Sikh’ in feminine gender where it means sikhiya, always comes without aunkad in the end i.e. it is a mukta (having no lag in the end). ‘Sikh’ in masculine gender where it means a disciple, would mostly come with aunkad in the end but there are exceptions that knowers of Gurbani Viyakaran know.




gurwiekdyihbuJweI]sBnwjIAwkwiekudwqwsomYivsirnjweI]6]





guraa eik dhaehi bujhaaee || sabhanaa jeeaa kaa eik dhaathaa so mai visar n jaaee ||6||

The meanings of this were done in the previous post.

Bhul chuk dee maafi jee. Guru Sahib baksh lain.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 10:46AM

vaheguroojeekakhalsa,vaheguroojeekeefateh!

veer kulbir singh jeeo,

wanted to ask Q's regarding the following various pankteeaa(n) you've already been through:

>

AwKihmMgihdyihdyihdwiqkrydwqwru ]





- i've seen a meaning given somewhere else that this panktee means that the praisers praise, and the begagars beg and then the giver gives – how would viyakaran disagree with that meaning? My feeling is that the presence sihareeaa(n) means that ‘via praising , via begging, the giver gives…’. Is this why you feel the meaning you have given is correct?

>

muhOikbolxubolIAYijqusuixDryipAwru ]





- why can this not mean that ‘what can we say with our mouth, which by also listening too, we will come to have love vaheguroo’? would viyakaran disagree with this alternative meaning?

>

krmIAwvYkpVwndrImoKuduAwru ]





- I’ve read one meaning where

krmI




has been translated as ‘actions’ so: ‘via good actions we get this sirops/body’. Why do you feel this definitely can’t be the case? That ‘by good actions we get this body but only by his grace [i.e. gurprasaad] we get to the door of salvation’. Also, does

moKuduAwru




mean both dasam duaar and sachkhand here or just one of them?

>

jyhaujwxwAwKwnwhIkhxwkQnunjweI]





- I’ve developped this habit lately of pronouncing

nwhI




with a bindee under the siharee – as ‘nahee(n)’. I don’t know where I have got it from (quite worrying really!) – is this completely wron? Are there any instances when doing paath where you would pronounce [gurbani] nwhI[/gurbanee] with a bindee under the siharee?

This seva is very important – may maharaaj jee do kirpa on you so you carry it out as best as possible and he keeps you in gareebee. I am already looking forward to you going onto Jaap Sahib next for the benefit of the sangat – big hint there! lol.

Dhanvaad.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2007 11:31AM by admin.

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Harpartap Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 02:03PM

VahegurujikaKhalsa, VahegurujikiFateh!

I can't see the any of panktia posted in Gurmukhi - can anyone help?

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 29, 2007 05:45AM

vaheguroojeekakhalsa,vaheguroojeekeefateh!

veer jee,

see the sticky thread re posting in gurmukhee. you need to download a font. have you done that and placed it in the c: > windows > fonts folder?

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 31, 2007 07:11AM

Atma Singh jeeo,

-------
why can this not mean that ‘what can we say with our mouth, which by also listening too, we will come to have love vaheguroo’? would viyakaran disagree with this alternative meaning?
-------

There are many hindrances to the meanings suggested by you. Perhaps we can discuss this on phone, when you get a chance. The verb 'dhare' for third person. There are other complications as well.

-----
has been translated as ‘actions’ so: ‘via good actions we get this sirops/body’. Why do you feel this definitely can’t be the case? That ‘by good actions we get this body but only by his grace [i.e. gurprasaad] we get to the door of salvation’
-----

Yes I am aware of these meanings but I have been inclined from the beginning to do the meanings that I did. Furthermore, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh and Professor Sahib Singh have interpreted the word 'Kapra' as sifat saalaah da kapra or robe of honour. Giani Harbans Singh Nirnaikaar has interpreted 'kapra' as human body as you suggest.



-------
mean both dasam duaar and sachkhand here or just one of them?
-------

Mokh duaara is essentially duaara or doorway from where freedom from this cycle of life and death happens. Opening of Dasam Duaar is access to Sachkhand while living on Earth. One could safely say that attainment of Mokhduaara is attainment of Dasam Duaar.


-------
- I’ve developped this habit lately of pronouncing
nwhI

with a bindee under the siharee – as ‘nahee(n)’. I don’t know where I have got it from (quite worrying really!) – is this completely wron? Are there any instances when doing paath where you would pronounce [gurbani] nwhI[/gurbanee] with a bindee under the siharee?
-------

It is correct to pronounce 'naahi' with nasal sound in the end.


Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 31, 2007 08:35AM

vaheguroojeekakhalsa,vaheguroojeekeefateh!

veer jee,

thanks for going through all my nit-picky questions.

maharaaj kirpa karae, i will speak to you soon.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 14, 2008 08:15AM

The 7th pauri of Siri Jap jee Sahib states the importance of Vaheguru in one’s life. Even if a person possesses the whole world and every material comfort but if such person is unable to attain the grace (kirpa) of Vaheguru, all material possessions are a waste and such person ends up getting disgraced in this world and the next one.



jyjugcwryAwrjwhordsUxIhoie]





jae, jug chaarae aarajaa, hor dhasoonee hoe ||

If one’s age becomes as long as the age of four yugs and then becomes ten times that i.e. equal to 40 yugs.

According to different estimates the age of four yugs is said to be as follows:

Satyug: 1,440,000 years; Treta: 1,080,000 years; Duapar: 720,000 years; Kalyug: 360,000 years. Some estimate that Kalyug is 436,000 years. It is said that evil will increase so much in Kalyug that it would be impossible for Kalyug to stay for full course of it’s life. It will end up much before that. The world would not be able to sustain the sin being done in this dark age. At this time, Kalyug is only about 5000 years old and look how evil has become rife in this world. What will happen in next 5000 years is unimaginable.



nvwKMfwivicjwxIAYnwilclYsBukoie]





navaa kha(n)ddaa vich jaaneeai; naal chalai sabh koe ||

If one becomes famous and known in all 9 continents of the Earth and everyone walks in agreement with this person.

The kanna of ‘navaa’ and ‘khandaa’ should be pronounced as nasal sound i.e. with bindi.


cMgwnwaurKwiekYjsukIriqjiglyie]





cha(n)gaa naao rakhaae kai; jas keerath jag laee ||

Furthermore, if one’s name is very well respected and one’s praise is done throughout the world.



jyiqsundirnAwveIqvwqnpuCYky]





jae this nadhar n aavee; th, vaath n pushhai kae ||

(Inspite of all this) if one does not come within the range of Vaheguru’s good eye or his grace, then such person’s condition will become so miserable that no one would care for such person i.e. Vaat na puchhay kae i.e. totally ignore such person.


kItwAMdirkItukirdosIdosuDry]





keettaa a(n)dhar keett kar; dhosee, dhos dhharae ||

(Explaining such person’s miserable condition Siri Guru jee says) such person will be placed amongst the lowliest of the insects and even the Doshi (sinners or culprits or bad people) people would accuse such person of dosh (crime, sin, fault). In other words, such person would be regarded so lowly that even criminals and sinners would accuse such person of sin i.e. he would be considered worse than sinners and criminals.

Professor Sahib Singh and Sikh Missionary related Gursikhs place the bishraam after ‘keet’ as opposed to the traditional bishraam after ‘kar’. The meanings do change quite bit if you place the bishraam this way. If you place the bishraam after ‘keet’ then the meaning would be ‘such person is placed within other insects, and then Vaheguru makes him doshi (kar doshi) by placing the dosh (of not japping Naam) on him.

1) The last alphabet of ‘dosh’ and ‘doshee’ should be pronounced as vishesh-dhuni i.e. by placing binding below the alphabet i.e. equal to English ‘sh’.
2) The kanna of ‘keeta’ should be pronounced as nasal sound.



nwnkinrguixguxukryguxvMiqAwguxudy]





naanak, niragun gun karae; gunava(n)thiaa gun dhae ||

While the above situation is true, the truth of the matter is that ultimately, Vaheguru himself is the one who makes one good or bad. In this pankiti Siri Guru jee is stating an important fact that Vaheguru produces virtue in a nirgunn (one who lacks virtues) and he alone gives virtue to the virtuous person.

The kanna of ‘gunvantiyaa’ should be pronounced with nasal sound.


qyhwkoiensuJeIijiqsuguxukoiekry]7]





thaehaa koe n sujhee; j, this gun koe karae ||7||

Siri Guru jee addressing Vaheguru states, 'Like you, no one else can be thought of, who can bestow virtue on them' (aforementioned virtuous and non-virtuous persons).

Gurbani is agam agaadh bodh. May Guru Sahib pardon our mistakes while doing Gurbani vichaar.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2008 12:54PM by admin.

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Outwardly (IP Logged)
Date: January 15, 2008 04:46AM

---------------------
Satyug: 1,440,000 years; Treta: 1,080,000 years; Duapar: 720,000 years; Kalyug: 360,000 years.
---------------------

Quick question - what is the source of this?

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,
Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Aparadhee (IP Logged)
Date: January 15, 2008 06:29AM

---------------------
Satyug: 1,440,000 years; Treta: 1,080,000 years; Duapar: 720,000 years; Kalyug: 360,000 years.
---------------------

Quick question - what is the source of this?

___________________________

there is a janamsakhi that states this i think

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 23, 2008 11:49AM

The pauris of suniai are very important for seekers of Vaheguru because these 4 pauris and the 4 pauris of manai tell us about the greatness of listening to Amrit Naam and to have faith in Amrit Naam. So great is the effect of listening to Amrit Naam with full concentration that merely by listening to Naam, one gets into smaadhi and all one's sorrows and sins are eradicated.

Many years ago, I visited a friends house who's mother was listening to Siri Jap jee Sahib katha done by Charan Singh the Guru of Radhasoami Beas branch. He was doing katha of pauris of suniai and was saying that some people interpret these pauris as listening to Gurbani or Naam but if this was true then how come so many people are doing loads of Gurbani paath and doing simran but no one is getting any results from it. Then he explained the Radhasoami point of view saying that the meaning of suniai here is to listen to Dhunaatmak Naam i.e. some kind of celestial sounds that they try to listen when in meditation. At first they try to listen to the sound of a ghanta (bell) from the right side of the brain. Then they move on to other sounds like thundering of clouds, water flowing and flute etc. This they consider listening to Naam and they conclude that only by listening to such Naam one can get the benefits described in the 4 pauris of suniai.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh has written a whole book on this topic, called Gurmat Naam Abhyaas Kamaayee. He has very strongly contended and refuted the aforementioned viewpoint of Radhasoamis and other similar sects. He writes that imagining to listening to the sounds of bells, clouds, water flowing or flute, how can we classify this as listening to Naam. Listening to Naam means listening to Naam-Gurmantr that we get from Punj Pyaaray.

It may sound very easy task but listening to Naam-Gurmantr is not that easy. It's extremely hard. It is hard to listen to Naam, without any other thought in the mind, even 5 times in a row. If one can listen to Naam continuously for even few minutes, then one can achieve anything one wants. What to talk about minutes, Siri Guru jee in Gurbani writes that if one concentrates one's mind on Naam even for half a breath, Vaheguru becomes Haazir Hazoor (Tukk Dum karaari jao karo, Haazir Hazoor Khudaaye||).

Charan Singh Radhasoami did point out a good point that Sikhs do a lot of Gurbani paath but don't derive benefit from it. The reason that he did not explain because he probably did not know, is that we don't listen to Gurbani and Naam with full concentration. If we do, then one paath of Gurbani is enough to achieve anything we want.

As for the Dhunatmak Naam, the theory is that Radhasoamis believe in two kinds of Naam i.e. Varnatmak Naam and Dhunatmak Naam. There is no Gurbani backup for this false claim. Varnatmak Naam according to them is any Naam that one can utter from mouth including Raam, Krishan etc. Dhunatmak Naam according to them is listening to bells, clouds, water flowing and flute etc. Now what happens is that after japping their Naam (Jyot Naranjan, Oankaar, Rarankaar, Sohang, Satnaam) for some time they cover their eyes and ears with their fingers and then try to hear the sound of bell. If the mind wants to hear the bell ringing in the right side of the mind, it will create this sound and the listener will start listening to this sound. What is so great about it? The real Sound is the Anhat sound that one hears without any intention and effort and that comes only after intensive and extensive kamaayee of Gurmat Naam.

Coming back to the topic of Suniai, the central meaning of these pauris is that by listening to Gurmat Naam from the mouth of the true Guru and then japping and listening to this Gurmat Naam, day and night, with full concentration one gets all the benefits listed in these four pauris. The benefits are so great that they seem unbelievable to many but for a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dasmesh, there is no doubt about the truthfulness of these pauris.

With respect to bishraams, the first thing to remember is that there is a pause after every 'suniai'.

The dulaava of the word 'suniai' must be pronounced clearly and the sound of dulaava should be nasal.

The meaning of this word is 'sunan karke' i.e. because of listening to Naam i.e. through listening to Naam.

ਸੁਣਿਐਸਿਧਪੀਰਸੁਰਿਨਾਥ ॥

suniai; sidhh peer sur naathh ||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, powers and status of accomplished Sidhas, Peers, celestial beings like Devtas and Naaths are attained.

Though these entities mentioned above had not reached Sach Khand still they were spiritually very advanced beings and had many powers. Such powers that they accomplished through intensively hard work can be realized easily by hearing Naam.



ਸੁਣਿਐਧਰਤਿਧਵਲਆਕਾਸ ॥

suniai; dhharath dhhaval aakaas ||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, one understands all secrets and knowledge about different planets, energy or power (Dhaul) holding these planets and the sky.

The last albhabet of 'aakaas' should be pronounced as 'sh'.

ਸੁਣਿਐਦੀਪਲੋਅਪਾਤਾਲ ॥

suniai; dheep loa paathaal ||


By hearing Naam with full concentration, one comes to know about continents, different worlds and of the netherworlds (paataal).


ਸੁਣਿਐਪੋਹਿਨਸਕੈਕਾਲੁ ॥
suniai; pohi n sakai kaal ||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, one does not get touched by Kaal i.e. one becomes free from the cycle of death and birth.


ਨਾਨਕਭਗਤਾਸਦਾਵਿਗਾਸੁ ॥

naanak, bhagathaa sadhaa vigaas ||


Using their Mohar Chaap, Siri Guru jee states that, the Bhagats who hear Naam with full concentration, always have vigaas (spiritual bliss).


The kanna of 'bhagta' is nasal.


ਸੁਣਿਐਦੂਖਪਾਪਕਾਨਾਸੁ ॥੮॥

suniai; dhookh paap kaa naas ||8||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, sorrows and sins are destroyed.

While it is okay to say 'naas' also but many gursikhs suggest that it is more shudh to pronounce 'naash' i.e. the last alphabet sound is 'sh'.


ਸੁਣਿਐਈਸਰੁਬਰਮਾਇੰਦੁ ॥

suniai; eesar baramaa ei(n)dh ||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, one attains the position and powers of Shiva, Brahma and Indra, the celestial demi-gods.

'eesar' should be pronounced as 'eeshar' and an adhak should be pronounced over 'raara' of 'barama'


ਸੁਣਿਐਮੁਖਿਸਾਲਾਹਣਮੰਦੁ ॥

suniai; mukh saalaahan ma(n)dh ||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, one's mouth starts uttering Sifat-saalah (praises) of Vaheguru, while smiling in Ilaahi Rangs i.e. divine colours.

The word 'salaahan' over here is not a verb but a noun which means praise or sifat-salaah. If this word had been a verb, it would have had a sihaari in the end and the meaning would be 'salahunde hun'. The reason why this word does not have an aunkad is that this word is a plural here.


ਸੁਣਿਐਜੋਗਜੁਗਤਿਤਨਿਭੇਦ ॥

suniai; jog jugath, than bhaedh ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one realizes the jog-jugat i.e. way to meet Vaheguru and one realizes all the secrets (bhed) of body.

The meaning of word 'jog' is union or milaap. Jugat means technique or way. Jog also means a sect of Shaiv Hinduism that was very popular in Punjab (and the North) at that time.


ਸੁਣਿਐਸਾਸਤਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿਵੇਦ ॥

suniai; saasath simrith vaedh ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one effortlessly realizes the knowledge and essence of Shaasters, Simrities and Vedas.

'saasath' should be pronounced as 'shaasath'


ਨਾਨਕਭਗਤਾਸਦਾਵਿਗਾਸੁ ॥

naanak; bhagathaa sadhaa vigaas ||

Using their Mohar Chaap, Siri Guru jee states that, the Bhagats who hear Naam with full concentration, always have vigaas (spiritual bliss).

The kanna of 'bhagta' is nasal.


ਸੁਣਿਐਦੂਖਪਾਪਕਾਨਾਸੁ ॥੮॥

suniai; dhookh paap kaa naas ||9||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, sorrows and sins are destroyed.

While it is okay to say 'naas' also but many gursikhs suggest that it should be 'naash' i.e. the last alphabet sound is 'sh'.


ਸੁਣਿਐਸਤੁਸੰਤੋਖੁਗਿਆਨੁ ॥

suniai sath sa(n)thokh giaan ||


By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one attains the Gurmat morality (Satt), contentment (Santokh) and Gurmat Gyaan (knowledge).


ਸੁਣਿਐਅਠਸਠਿਕਾਇਸਨਾਨੁ ॥

suniai; at(h)asat(h) kaa eisanaan ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one attains the reward of going to 68 Teeraths.

'isnaan' above should be pronounced as 'Ishnaan'.

ਸੁਣਿਐਪੜਿਪੜਿਪਾਵਹਿਮਾਨੁ ॥

suniai; parr parr paavehi maan ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one effortlessly get honoured as if one has studied intensively, different kinds of educations.

The 'haaha and sihaari' in the end of 'paavehi' is nasal sound.


ਸੁਣਿਐਲਾਗੈਸਹਜਿਧਿਆਨੁ ॥

suniai; laagai sehaj dhhiaan ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one achieves dhyaana (concentration) effortlessly. This is the Gurmat way of getting dhyana or concentration.


ਨਾਨਕਭਗਤਾਸਦਾਵਿਗਾਸੁ ॥

naanak; bhagathaa sadhaa vigaas ||

Using their Mohar Chaap, Siri Guru jee states that, the Bhagats who hear Naam with full concentration, always have vigaas (spiritual bliss).

The kanna of 'bhagta' is nasal.

ਸੁਣਿਐਦੂਖਪਾਪਕਾਨਾਸੁ ॥੮॥

suniai; dhookh paap kaa naas ||10||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, sorrows and sins are destroyed.

While it is okay to say 'naas' also but many gursikhs suggest that it should be 'naash' i.e. the last alphabet sound is 'sh'.

ਸੁਣਿਐਸਰਾਗੁਣਾਕੇਗਾਹ ॥

suniai; saraa gunaa kae gaah ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), the spiritual lakes or sarovars of great qualities in different spiritual worlds become achievable to Gurmukhs. Bhai Sahib writes that there are countless unseen divine and spiritual lakes that Gurmukhs have access to, when in trance.

The kanna of 'saraa' and 'gunaa' is nasal.

ਸੁਣਿਐਸੇਖਪੀਰਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ॥

suniai; saekh peer paathisaah ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one attains the positions of accomplished Sheikhs and Pirs (Holy Sufi Saints), and great kings.

'saekh' should be pronounced as 'Sheikh' and 'Paathisaah' and 'Paatshaah'.

ਸੁਣਿਐਅੰਧੇਪਾਵਹਿਰਾਹੁ ॥

suniai; a(n)dhhae paavehi raahu ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), ones blinded by maya find way to Vaheguru.

'haaha and sihaari' of 'paavehi' is nasal sound i.e. pronounce bindi there.

ਸੁਣਿਐਹਾਥਹੋਵੈਅਸਗਾਹੁ ॥

suniai; haathh hovai asagaahu ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one so deeply and thoroughly realizes the unmeasurable Vaheguru as something placed on ones hand. In other words, one totally realizes Vaheguru.

ਨਾਨਕਭਗਤਾਸਦਾਵਿਗਾਸੁ ॥

naanak; bhagathaa sadhaa vigaas ||


Using their Mohar Chaap, Siri Guru jee states that, the Bhagats who hear Naam with full concentration, always have vigaas (spiritual bliss).

The kanna of 'bhagta' is nasal.

ਸੁਣਿਐਦੂਖਪਾਪਕਾਨਾਸੁ ॥੮॥

suniai; dhookh paap kaa naas ||11||

By hearing Naam with full concentration, sorrows and sins are destroyed.

While it is okay to say 'naas' also but many gursikhs suggest that it should be 'naash' i.e. the last alphabet sound is 'sh'.

Baani is agam agaadh bodh. May Guru Sahib pardon my mistake while doing Gurbani Vichaar above.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: January 23, 2008 12:14PM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Kulbir Singh jio,

Waheguru! thanks a lot. Guru Sahib aap jee nu hor kamaiyan bakhshish karan jee.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Outwardly (IP Logged)
Date: January 23, 2008 02:35PM

Vah!!

A few questions...

--------------------------------
ਨਾਨਕਭਗਤਾਸਦਾਵਿਗਾਸੁ ॥

Using their Mohar Chaap, Siri Guru jee states that, the Bhagats who hear Naam with full concentration, always have vigaas (spiritual bliss).
--------------------------------
What is meant by 'Mohar Chaap'?

Also, since we are discussing Bishraams, can you please quickly explain the difference between Jamkeeaa(n) and Thamkeeyaa(n).

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,
Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: Aparadhee (IP Logged)
Date: January 23, 2008 03:06PM

ਸੁਣਿਐਅੰਧੇਪਾਵਹਿਰਾਹੁ ॥

suniai; a(n)dhhae paavehi raahu ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), ones blinded by maya find way to Vaheguru.

'haaha and sihaari' of 'paavehi' is nasal sound i.e. pronounce bindi there.

ਸੁਣਿਐਹਾਥਹੋਵੈਅਸਗਾਹੁ ॥

suniai; haathh hovai asagaahu ||

By hearing Naam (with full concentration), one so deeply and thoroughly realizes the unmeasurable Vaheguru as something placed on ones hand. In other words, one totally realizes Vaheguru.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

bhai sahib ji is aunkad pronounced here: ਅਸਗਾਹੁ or is it pronounced asgaah similarly in previous pankiti to this is it raahu or raah.

also earlier on in sri jap ji sahib we get:

hukmI hukmu clwey rwhu ]





nwnk ivgsY vyprvwhu ]3]






is it veparvaahu or veparvaah,

thnk u
gurooo

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2008 06:52AM

Outwardly jeeo,

-----
What is meant by 'Mohar Chaap'?
--------

Mohar Chhaap just means when Guru Sahib uses their name 'Nanak'. Mohar Chaap means stamp, in literal terms.


-------
Also, since we are discussing Bishraams, can you please quickly explain the difference between Jamkeeaa(n) and Thamkeeyaa(n).
---------

I am not sure what thamkeeyaan mean but jamkee means small pause and bishraam means full bishraam.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Important Bishraams in Siri Jap jee Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2008 06:58AM

Apraadhee jeeo,

----------
bhai sahib ji is aunkad pronounced here: ਅਸਗਾਹੁ or is it pronounced asgaah similarly in previous pankiti to this is it raahu or raah.
--------

I personally am of the stance that the laghu maatra i.e. aunkad and sihaari of nouns and pronouns (not of verbs) is silent and as such the uchaaran of the above stated nouns is Asgaah and Raah. Having said that, there are Gursikhs who like to pronounce the haaha ending nouns with laghu maatras, but they should be carefull as to not pronouncing the aunkad as hora and sihaari as laam. The uchaaran of aunkad and sihaari should be very subtle.

----------
also earlier on in sri jap ji sahib we get:


hukmI hukmu clwey rwhu ]
nwnk ivgsY vyprvwhu ]3]






is it veparvaahu or veparvaah,
----------

As stated above, I personally believe in pronouncing this as Raah and Veparvaah, since these are nouns.

I would like to refer you to the book of Sardar Dhanna Singh, a retired magistrate, who has written a very well researched book on Gurbani Uchaaran. Principal Harbhajan Singh and Giani Harbans Singh Nirnaikaar too have given excellent advice on Gurbani uchaaran in their books.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 
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