Can Bhai Kulbir Singh and other gursikhs talk about karnee-naama? Is this true from guru nanak dev jee?

Can you tell us what Karnee-nama talks about as in Khalsa Raj? I heard it says hard times are going to come with lot of blood shed and then khalsa will take over!

Karni-nama is attributed to Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee as are some other baanis like Naseehatnama, Ratanmala etc. that are not in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee. All authentic baani of first 5 Guru Sahibaan was entered into Siri Guru GRanth Sahib jee by Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee Maharaj and there is no chance of any baani of these Satguru Sahibaan being outside of Maharaj jee’s saroop.

Long time ago, I read the Karni-nama and to me this rachna seemed like from the period after Siri Dasmesh jee. It talks about Aurangzeb, Siri Dasmesh jee and how Singhs will win over the world and establish Khalsa Raj. It is highly unlikely that this was composed during first Guru Sahiban's time.

Kulbir Singh

Dear All,

There were baanis which werenot recorded in Guru granth sahib ji and Guru Dasam Granth ji. From that view you cannot tell that banis which were not recorded in SGGS or SGDGS is not a Baani.

To understand these Issues.SGGS has guided us to goto Saad or Sant sangat to Know bcz they are brahamgyani and Know everything about future and past. But to obtain such sangat of Puran Mahapursh or Sant itself is a Karni

At the time of Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee and even before this time, many enemies of Guru ghar e.g. Prithis, started composing baani under the stamp of "Nanak". All authentic baani of first 5 Guru Sahibaan was collected and recorded in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee by Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee. Later on, Siri Dasmesh jee entered Siri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib jee's baani in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee. This proves that Siri Guru Hargobind Sahib jee, Siri Guru Har Rai Sahib jee and Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib jee did not compose any baani; otherwise, Siri Guru Dasmesh jee would have entered it while they entered the baani of Siri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib jee.

The collection and composition of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee is perfect. It does not lack any Gurbani of first 9 Guru Sahibaan. As for Siri Dasmesh jee's baani, as per bhaana of Guru Gobind Singh jee, it was collected and compiled separately. Our tradition says that Bhai Mani Singh jee compiled Dasam Granth. Some say it was done at the time of Siri Dasmesh jee. In any case, there is baani outside of Dasam Granth that is Siri Dasmesh jee's baani e.g. that shabad "Khalsa Mero roop hai khaas" but no baani of first 9 Guru Sahibaan is outside of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee. I think to think that there is Dhur kee baani of first 9 Guru Sahibaan outside of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee amounts to blasphemy.

Kulbir Singh

I've noticed that many singhs quote compositions such as KarniNamah and Mangal Parkash (from Sau Sakhian?) as evidence for the establishment of Khalsa Raj/Khalistan in the near future. I heard that there are many versions of the Sau Sakhi script and it's been noted in history that many different people have changed/added compositions into it for their benefit and propaganda. I found the below at SikhiWiki.

"These ‘prediction’ Sau Sakhis first appeared during the years of life and death struggle of the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa in the 18th century. According to the martial tradition held within the Akali Nihang Baba Darbara Singh Akhara, these predictions were only a means of propaganda to keep the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa morale alive in these desperate times when the Khalsa was facing extinction while facing a constant state of war. In time as Khalsa Raj lost out to the British, new prediction Sakhis surfaced forecasting the end of British Raj and establishment of Maharaj Duleep Singh’s Raj."

In same manner the Akali Nihangs and Nirmala Khalsa created new Sakhis in order to prop their anti-British Raj cause. The Namdharis also created their own tales to boost their cause and no doubt there surfaced a new series of prediction Sakhis. It has to be appreciated the British also propagated their own ‘Sau Sakhi’ predictions to counter Nihang and Namdhari anti-British propaganda. If all the predictions in Sau Sakhis are to be accepted literally (as some Namdharis suggest), then logic would imply that all predictions in the Sau Sakhis should have now come to pass. However, this is not the case. The significance of Sau Sakhi predictions can only be appreciated as a tool for propaganda, serving a particular purpose at a particular juncture in Sikh history - and not as literal truth. Therefore, one can conclude that the Sau Sakhis which speak of Ram Singh as an incarnation of Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, have no credibility."
-[www.sikhiwiki.org]