Hello Saadsangat Ji,

I had one question in my mind for quite a long time.

1. Since Earth is a Karam Bhumi. All the Prophets, Mahapurshs, Satgurus have to take human form(Laws of nature) to guide the Manmukhs. Even though Satguru is purely form of light and shabad, still He has to take Human Form to guide us.
my question is When Guru Tegh Bahadur visted Amritsar from Baba Bakala, People of Amritsar didnot allow Guru Tegh Bahadur ji to enter Harimander Sahib because They still thought Guru Harkrishan ji was Guruji and side by side Guru Granth Sahib was guruji, established in Harimander Sahib. NOW if GURU GOBIND SINGH JI come and Say, 'I am Guru Gobind Singh Ji', How many of us going to believe that He is our Guru or just a Dehdhari cult.

2. When Guru Nanak Dev ji gave Guru Ship to Guru Angad Dev ji, at that time Guruship was under both Guru nanak Dev ji and Guru Angad dev ji beacuse even though Guru nanak dev ji gave his kamai and naam vast and guru ship to Angad dev ji, Guru nanak dev ji had a Guruship in his hands. 2 gurus at one time beacuse guru nanak dev left to Sachkhand later.

When Guru Nanak Dev Jee gave Guruship to Guru Angad Dev Jee, he ordered the sangat to bow now only to Guru Angad Dev Jee. Guru Nanak Dev Jee did not sit on the GurGadhi from that point onwards. All the affairs of Guru Sahib were then conducted by Guru Angad Dev Jee.

I think the point you are really trying to make is that what happens if Guru Gobind Singh comes again.

My view is that the whole notion of Guru Gobind Singh Jee coming back lacks creditability. First of all Guru Gobind Singh Jee has not gone anywhere he is there when ever the True Khalsa needs him. For Guru Jee to come back in the physically/worldly form would mean that there was something incomplete left that needs to be done or something new needs to be offered. The fact of the matter is that Guru Jee made the khalsa complete and it is the true Khalsa that would accomplish the mission.

Guruji Said,'PAP SAMBUH BINASHAN KAU, KALKI AVTAR KHAWGE, TURKASH, TURANG, SAPASH BADO, KAR KAD KIRPAN KAPWAHAGE NIKSE JIM KEHAR PARBATTE TUS SOBH DIVALAYE PAVEHAGE, BHAL BHAG BHIYA EH SAMBAL KE, HAR JOO HARMANDIR AWANGE'

If we think logically, There is no Guru Gobind SIngh ji Historical Gurudwara from Amritsar till Beas.the fact is this when Guru Gobind Singh ji wanted to visit Harimandir sahib, Maharaji asked his Neela near Beas not to perform any Nature Calls in Shri Amritsar since it is a Highly Pure Place of Their Previous Gurus, But Neela Refused to do so. At that time Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that they will come later in Other Form in Harimandir sahib. If we go through Guru Gobind SIngh ji Itihass. There is no mention of Guruji visting Harimandir Sahib.

I think the above writing is referring Har Mander to Sach Khand.

As for your story regarding Guru Gobind Singh Jees horse, I don’t think it makes sense as you can’t avoid animals or human beings going to the call of nature in the entire city of Amritsar. However if your comments were directed at the immediate vicinity of the Darbar Sahib then it would not have been difficult for Guru Jee to tie his horse say some distance away and walk on foot to Darbar Sahib.

Har Mandir mentioned in above Shabad is for Actual Golden Temple situated in Amritsar Sahib; for Sach Khand Maharaji would have used 'Javange'instead of 'avange'.

Ultimately, it is a Bharosa and Faith which takes Human to God. When Maharaji is telling Guru Granth ji Maneo Pargat Guran ki Deh; then there shouldn't be any question or finger raising on whatever is in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Even Manamukhs are created by God, there karams too written by God. It only by the will of Guruji those Manmukhs become Gurmukhs. Path to Akal Purakh is Very Difficult(Valoon niki, Khandeon Tikhi). Guruji can be obtained only thru true sangat of Sant, Mahapursh who have already relaized GO beacause Khalsa mero roop hai khaas, Khalse main hu karo niwaas.

Nowdays people take amrit on first day consisder themselve as SIKH. Wearing Kirpan or Drinking Amirt from Panj Pyaare doeasnot make Person SIKH. Sikhi is very difficult to obtain. Only few like Bhai Dyaala ji, Bhai Taru ji, Bhai Sati Das ji, Bhai Mahan Singh ji and other Sant , mahapursh, Brahamgyani able to obtain it.

Taking amrit and wearing kirpan means He has Just got admitted to SIkhi School. but There is long way to go before He Could realize Satguru ji teaching and Tru way of living as mentioned in Gurbaani by Bhagat Kabir ji.

I didn’t want to continue this topic but I thought it was not right to leave the wrong impression on others regarding the idea of Guru Gobind Singh Jee coming back.

Firstly I should have mentioned what I am going to say earlier but because I wanted to keep it short I tried to use a one liner, I’m not sure if it worked.

The banee that mpsingh86 is quoting from is referring to the Khalsa in its text. So it is pointless trying to debate over the meaning of some words. Even if I was to agree that it could mean Harmander Sahib it still would not be what veer mpsingh86 wants to put across.

Like I said before, Guru Gobind Singh has not gone anywhere he is there whenever the true Khalsa calls out for him. There have been many occasions in our history were GurSikhs have seen Guru Gobind Singh Jee physically most of these occurrences have been in battles and there is one famous incident that is recorded by some historians of a Bibi calling out for Guru Gobind Singh Jee in the darks days of the early 1700s after the killing of Gursikhs from her locality. Guru Jee turned up in her village of Neyazbegh wearing is normal Neela Bana and destroyed the enemy and sent it running. This incident spread around Punjab like wild fire. Some Gursikhs who were feeling demoralised by the widespread killing of Gursikhs got new hope.


Guru Jee is recorded to have said that

ਜਿਥੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਧਰਮ ਦੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ, ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦੇ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰ ਲਈ ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਜੁਧ ਕਰਨਗੇ ਉਥੇ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਦੀਦਾਰ ਹੋਸੀ I


In Bansavalee Nama it is written

ਪੂਰਨ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀ, ਆਪ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ I

ਪੰਥ ਹੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ, ਮੈਂ ਆਪ ਰਹਾਂਗਾ ਪੰਥ ਵਿਚ ਸਿਪਾਹ I

Guru Piayrio Jios,
In my most humble opinion consider this FACT. Has there been any single instance during the Guruships of the Firts TEN Nnaks..that any Sikh/person/whosoever..has ever said that...Today I ahd "Partakh Darshan" of....Guru Nanak Ji Sahib...Guru Angad Ji Sahib..Guur Amardass Ji sahib..etc etc..ALL SIKHS and SANGATS ONLY Had Partakh Darshan of the GURU that was sitting on the GURGADEE.

ALL this "partakh darshan" stuff began after the Gurgadee of Dhan Dhan Guru garanth Sahib Jee Maharaj...From day one some veers have been DENYING that Guur Granth ji was ever bestowed Gurgadee in 1708 (Nmadharees and others).
Then came along some other Mahapurashs etc who claimed they had "partakh darshan" of Guru Nanak ji, Guru Hargobind Ji..etc in SGGS...This casts DOUBT on the Partakh DARSHAN of Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Ji Maharaj !! IF no oen ever had "partakh drashan" of say Guru Ramdass Ji during the Gurgadee of Guru Arjun Ji..then WHY some claim they are having "PD" of Guru nanak ji during the Gurgadee of Dhan Dhan Gurur Garnth Ji Maharaj ?? IS not the JYOT of ALL TEN NANAKS placed in and shining thorugh the Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Ji maharaj ??

2. Then along came others..even worse...they began to claim they are IN FACT..the Partakh GURU GOBIND SINGH JI Himslef...dokhis like bhaniayra...dokhis like gurmeet ram rahim...Many OTHERS also CLAIM..that certain GURUS..ENTER their Bodies and SPEAK OUT..give them Powers...and many fools beleive these fools..

3. To my MIND..all these claims of partakh darshan, partakh guru ji pargat etc etc are all TRICKS..meant to cheat and deny the Gurgadee of Dhan Dhan Guru garnth Sahib Jee Maharaj. The Guru Granth sahib Ji is SAMPURAN..sarab kala smaraath GURU..complete in every aspect...no other jyot needs to appear in partakh darshan to serve any purpose...SGGS is there in Partakh FORM to serve all our NEEDS and WISHES as per Gurmatt.

4. When I came back from a Yatra of Hazoor Sahib/Anandpur sahib and Patna Sahib..my friends asled me..Did you get to meet Guru Gobind Singh ji in person ? And this was because soemoen else before me from my area had spread the news that on the way to patna..his car was stuck in a flash flood..and GURU GOBIND SINGH JI came and PUSHED the car...and also went ahead and INSTRUCTED the Singh sahib Iqbal Singh of Patna to say..Mere Singh malaysia ton aa reheh hen..chah pannee tyar rakhnnna...blah blah blha...and PEOPLE BELIEVED HIS TALL TALE !! This is the same very singh shaib ji..who asked donators to donate air conditions for sachkhand of teh gurdawra he was garnthi of..BUT when a Power failure occurs..He would get in his car and drive to his in laws place to sleep...LEAVING the Sachkhand/SGGS sroops to stay in the heat !!! I asked him..why are you not taking a Fan and Fanning Guru ji...pakhaan ferahn as in Gurbani ??..and this person expected me to beleive that Guru ji came to PUSH his car ??...Anyway I DIGRESS..forgive me. Its precisely becasue of such frauds that such stories spread by word of mouth...another said..no Ji..one ahs to go to hemkunt shaib..sure Guru ji will appear and give His darshan ?? IF a SIKH cannot get "darshan" of all Ten Nanaks from the Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Ji Mahraj..then i see no reason why Guur Ji would give him darshan...on a public bus stop..highway..or on the mountain ???

WE MUST end this DUBITHA..wee oursleves created..the ONE and ONLY GURU we need is Dhan Dhan Gurur Granth sahib Jee Maharaj..all the worlds and other worlds sukhs, are in GURBANI. Dont be misled into running from pillar to post..life is short..stick to the Zahaaz that Guru Arjun ji constructed for us to swim across thsi Maya world...the Guru Garnth Ji. Forget about small boats..kishtees..life boats..etc etc..this biggest of all and most Luxurious LINER is there for a Majestic Journey to Sachee dargah..only FOOLS look around for small boats...