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Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: 13khalsa (IP Logged)
Date: June 03, 2009 05:19AM

We have been discussing the sacrifices of Gursikhs recently and because of the nature of Sikhee we will always be discussing their sacrifices. The blood of the Shaheeds has made this Panth. There is no month nor any week that goes by, that does not remind us of their sacrifices.

To become a Shaheed does not come easy but that is natural as the reward is beyond description. The title of Shaheed is a honour given to a very few Gursikhs as a Sikh Shaheed is more than just someone that dies, his Sikhee faith has to be in tact when he sacrifices his life.

In a Sakhee it is written that Sikhs asked Guru Gobind Singh Jee, who can be called a Shaheed ? The following was the response :



ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਹੈ ਉਹ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਸਿਦਕ ਸਾਬਤ I

ਰਣ ਕਾ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਸੋ ਤੋ ਤਰਿਆ I

ਬਿਸਦਕ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਅਤੇ ਕਾਇਰ ਜੰਜਾਲੀ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਹੈਂ I

ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਖੜੇ ਸੰਗਤ ਸਣੇ ਉਡੀਕਦੇ ਹਨ I

ਜੈਸੀ ਜੈਸੀ ਭਾਵਨਾ ਸ਼ਹੀਦਾਂ ਦੀ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ ਤੈਸੀ ਤੈਸੀ ਸਿਧ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ I

ਜਮ ਕੇ ਦੂਤ ਸ਼ਹੀਦਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪੁਛ ਕੇ ਫਿਰਦੇ ਹਨ I

ਦੇਵਤਿਅ ਨੂੰ ਜੋ ਪਹੁੰਚਦਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਸ਼ਹੀਦਾਂ ਦੇ ਹੱਥ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ I


A Shaheed is a person who sacrifices his life with his faith complete intact.
This warrior of the Battle swims across.
Worthless is the utterly cowardly worldly life of a wonderer in rebirth.
Guru Jee stands with the Sangat in wait for the Shaheed.
As as is the wish of the Shaheed so so it becomes true.
The messengers of Jamm have to ask around the Shaheed.
The ones that reach Guru-Dev have to go through the hands of Shaheeds.

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: gsingh88 (IP Logged)
Date: September 07, 2009 01:54PM


 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: Jarnail Singh "Arshi" Gyani (IP Logged)
Date: September 16, 2009 02:04AM

shaeedee is self willed.
all our shaheeds could have chosen to live..they chose death..even the most horrible tortures couldnt change their minds...

2. I am not sure about those who died....example... say in the 1984 Delhi Pogroms..were surrounded by Mobs and murdered...they were NOT given a chance to " change their minds"...they were MURDERED without choice ( but because they were SIKHS). Just how many would have agreed to shave and change their religion ?? no one really knows for sure...

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: only five (IP Logged)
Date: September 20, 2009 09:09PM

A shaheed is anyone that in the name of Truth gives his life.

A Shaheed does not make a choice to give his life in the name of truth, but makes a commitment when he steps on the path of truth. So it's not self-willed at all. The martyr could have been like the rest dishonored their commitment, which this becomes the choice and is refered to as self-willed.

Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji' has taught us when all other means fail then it is alright to pick up the sword. Now if the Sikh loses his life in this battle did he make the choice or did he honor his commitment. I believe the later is true. When you step on this path of Truth that is the choice you are making, afterwards it's all about honoring your committment toward Guru Sahib.

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: Jarnail Singh "Arshi" Gyani (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 03:41AM

When you pick up a sword..one is aware of the consequences...it could lead to death on the battlefield or one could return alive. Just as Baba deep Singh ji drew the line with his Khanda...only those willing to die cross over...( however certain death is in His Hands..its the WILL to DIE that is OUR CHOICE - consequences of that choice are in HIS HANDS ..IF He doesnt want you dead..it wont happen.)Baba Ji went on that offensive with the WILL TO LIVE..until he has reached Harmandar sahib..it was this WILL TO LIVE that resulted/consequence..of him carrying his severed head on his talee until he had reached his willed choice..Harmandar sahib..so even DEATH couldnt STOP Baba JI..many find it hard to see the difference...and think it s miracle..its NOT - its Baba Jis will to follow his chosen Path to success.
Akali Phoola Singh Ji ahd offered ardass to attack Multan fort. Maharaja Ranjit Singh learnt that his other forces were late and so wanted to wait...akali ji said NO WAITING as ardass had been oferred. He waded into the raging river on his horse..and his jatha followed him....
Bhai lachman Singh was also warned that the mahant naraionnoo was ready to burn all sikhs who came into nankanna sahib in 1920..and wanted him to trun abck from certian death..he said ardass ahs been done..I am going..certian death..so be it. He WILLED and left for Nankanna sahib and was indeed burned alive.

jrnYl isMG igAwnI "ArSI"





 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: only five (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 01:07PM

Baba Deep Singh didn't make a choice to die, but it was God's will. Baba Deep Singh ji made the choice whether he wants to follow Sikhi. Afterward's it was all about following Sikhi and this included fighting battles. Whether he died in battle one or two is irrelevant and he did not choose to live or die in anyone of them. IT was God's Hukam, which Baba Deep Singh ji was following and the choice was up to God when Baba Deep Singh ji would leave this earth. The ardas that Baba Deep Singh ji did was if my head is cut off fighting then I will fight till I reach Harmindar Sahib. And when it did get cut he had no choice, but to keep fighting because of his commitment he made with Guru Sahib when he stepped on the Sikhi path and when he did the Ardas. Baba Deep Singh ji honored his commitment and didn't need to or want to or have to or anything to do with choice.

Baba Deep Singh ji didn't follow his chosen path to success, he committed to following Sikhi and God by his command not by Baba Deep Singh ji's(choice), but by God's command fullfilled the Ardas of Baba Deep Singh ji. Once that head was cut Baba Deep Singh ji only had to honor the Ardas, which happened by God's command.

If Baba Deep Singh went against his committment then he will be making the choice and we all know he didn't so he was going with his commitment, which was to follow Guru Sahib and practice Sikhi


When Baba Deep Singh ji made the line with his Khanda it's wasn't about choice whether to fight or not, but about honoring your commitments. Those that dishonored their commitments made the choice, which is called self-willed and those that honored their commitment went with SIkhi teachings and fullfilled there promise to Guru Sahib. Both groups had no choice because they stepped on the Sikhi path, which includes in certain times being a marytr. Baba Deep Singh wasn't making a choice, neither did it cross his mind. Only those would consider it a choice, which fear physical death and those that disobey Guru Sahib after accepting Guru Sahib as their Guru. Baba Deep Singh ji was a Gursikh and knew he had to follow the teaching, if all means fail then it is alright to pick up the sword.

Second example given, is the same as the first with Baba Deep Singh ji. Akali Phoola Singh ji knew he had no choice as his commitment. the ardas as Guru Sahib has told us to do before doing a task. Baba Deep Singh and Akali Phoola Singh ji both saw these as another task Guru Sahib has assigned them. When Guru Sahib tells us to do something all you do is get up and do it. You don't sit there and say do I have a choice here.NO! there is no choice when the True Guru has told you to do something. And as taught when every other means fails it is alright to pick up the sword. This can't be stressed enough.

Maharaja Ranjit Singh ji made the choice, which was self-willed. He in this moment dishonored his commitment of the Ardas. Again Guru Sahib tells us to do Ardas before we do a task. He didn't have a choice, but because he was self-willed at this moment and thinking with the mind and following the mind he thought he had a choice. But truly he neve did.

Third example is the samething as the first two. The penalty at the hand of tyrants of honoring your commitment doesn't change anything, but just makes your commitment look even stronger. But to the Sikh it didn't matter if a million soldiers and army tanks, fighter jets, whatever you want to put came infront of him or her. Once he or she stepped on to the Sikhi path it's all about honoring the commitment against all odds. Not a single Sikh would say I had a choice to abondon this commitment.

Once you step on the Sikhi path and the day comes before you to fight in a battle that day a Sikh as to be ready to honor his commitment and there is no if, but's and maybe's.

We don't have a choice of doing nitnem either because we made a promise with Guru Sahib everyday I will get up and praise the Lord. But every day we dishonor this commitment due to our weaknesses. When your weak you believe you have a choice, but in reality you don't, due to the Amrit you took from the Panj Pyare.

It's like in school when a teacher gives you a work sheet to do and it is due the next day. Does that person have a choice here, NO. because once he stepped into that class he knew he had to fullfill the teacher's request. This is a weak example because you can't compare a normal teacher to Guru Sahib, but it has the same context.

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: Jarnail Singh "Arshi" Gyani (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 10:09PM

imho..its just a play on words...choice or commitment.
IF I have already CHOSEN I will NOT cut my kesh no matter what ( Bhai Taru Singh Ji) than is that a CHOICE or Commitment ?? To me its the same thing.

The CHOICE comes first..once its made..its commitment. A Sikh makes a choice to chhak amrit..then it becomes a comittment to remain a SINGH/KHALSA no matter what occurs.
We have CHOICES..BUT after a choice is made..the CONSEQUENCES are BEYOND OUR CONTROL..thats under His HUKM. Say I ask you to LIFT up your LEG. You have a CHOICE..lift up the LEFT leg or RIGHT LEG. Period. End of Choice. Now IF I see that you have lifted up your RIGHT LEG..and I ask you to lift up your LEFT LEG...you CANNOT MAKE ANY MORE CHOICES....without suffering the consequences..Becasue after you made the CHOICE of which leg to lift up..you are COMITTED....

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: only five (IP Logged)
Date: September 23, 2009 12:04PM

Word play would be saying choice and commitment are the same.

When A person steps on to the Sikhi's path he has to adhere to all the practices. And this includes kes must be kept uncut. Again the choice was whether I should step on this Sikhi path. Afterward choice is liminated and only committment is left. Plust the Punj Pyare tell a person to keep hair first then come to recieve Amrit.

Bhai Taru Singh ji was exactly like Baba Deep Singh ji. Honoring his commitment he made when he stepped on to this Sikhi path. There was no if, but's, and maybe's for these Gursikhs. Only a Sikh in name would say I have a choice whether to honor my committment. And reading Gurbani this person is not considered Sikh at all.

Yes the choice comes first, finally!!! But onc'es on this Sikhi path then there is no choice because Guru Sahib has told us how to be Sikhs and there is no other brand of Sikhi where you can choose from. It's all about honoring the commitment you made by taking Amrit from the Punj Pyare.

Sikhi is not to just be practiced at the Gurdwara and then afterwards take that Dastaar off and go to the barber shop for a shave. Why does the person have to pick up the leg? When this question is asked the Sikh is not thinking whether the mind desires to do it or not, but whether it's in his commitment that he made with Guru Sahib. Again no choice just honoring his committment. The consequences have nothing to do with the commitment. The bigger the consequences the more happily the Sikh will accept it. Doesn't matter for the Sikh because when he stepped on the Sikhi path he said Manmat is not my path and Gurmat is. The Sikh will follow the Guru in every aspect of his life. Picking up a pencil, lifting a leg doesn't matter which task it is. There is no choice for the Sikh, only thing left is honoring the commitment. And the Sikh doesn't even see it that way because he is so in love with the Lord it's his daily thing to live by the Guru's teaching. It is him to live by the Guru's teaching. The idea of choice will separate this Sikh away from the Guru and he will suffer in pain because of this one msistake.

Guru Sahib has taught us to live every aspect our lives. You just got to listen.

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: Jarnail Singh "Arshi" Gyani (IP Logged)
Date: September 24, 2009 06:52AM

A SIKH has to "pick up a leg" and take the First step Towards GUru Ji...and then Guru Ji takes a thousand steps towards him..
Guru Ji called for a Head..and Bhai daya Raam STOOD UP !! That is a First step..he had to stand up...and be counted.
Sikhi/Gurmatt is a 24/7 365 day affair..once a choice has been made its a life time commitment. no ifs and no buts..yes i agree.

jrnYl isMG igAwnI "ArSI"





 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: only five (IP Logged)
Date: September 24, 2009 01:08PM

A person 'picks up a leg' onto the Sikhi path. The person could have picked it toward Christianinity, Islam, Hinduism, could have made a choice to be an atheist or an agnostic. But once that choice is made into Sikhi then it's all about honoring the committment. Whether Guru Sahib moves two steps or zero or 1 million is irrelevant and the Sikh still stays strong in his commitment. The test come in many ways.

When Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji asked for a head the first time no one stood up and walked toward Guru Sahib. Every Sikh that was sitting there in that crowd had dishonored there committment. Then in the second call the same thing happened no one came forward. Again everyone dishonored their commitment. Then in the third call Bhai Sahib Daya Singh ji came to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, with his head low. Was Bhai Sahib Daya Singh ji proud of the fact that he refused his Guru two times. Bhai Sahib Daya Singh ji apologized for such a mistake. No one in that sangat had a choice. They all had to honor their commitment, but only the Sikhs stood up, the true Sikhs gave their head. Then after that the sangat had the opportunity to redeem their commitment in that moment. Which they did, by taking Amrit from the Punj Pyare.

The 40 Mukte also dishonored there commitment by not staying with Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. They even wrote a letter saying we are not your Sikh. But these brave souls came back and fought 10 lac. They realized what a horrible mistake they made. And afterward's Guru Sahib forgave them for the mistake. He ripped that letter up and these Sikhs were liberated from the cycle of birth and death.

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: Jarnail Singh "Arshi" Gyani (IP Logged)
Date: September 24, 2009 08:07PM

YES.

jrnYl isMG igAwnI "ArSI"





 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: virk30 (IP Logged)
Date: October 29, 2009 10:58AM

what about men who were not gursikhs but fought and died to defend sikhi

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: virk30 (IP Logged)
Date: October 29, 2009 12:17PM

from reading this forum when ppl say a shaheed is someone who is gursikh who died for the sikh faith

then why are udhum singh bhagat singh kartar singh called shaheeds

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: 13khalsa (IP Logged)
Date: October 30, 2009 04:21PM

Virk30 jee, it does not matter who I or you call a Shaheed. What matters is who Guru Jee see’s as a Shaheed. Since the beginning of mankind there have been many people that have given their lives for noble causes and many have been given the title of Martyr.

According to the above Sakhi and Gurmat principles in order to be honoured with the title of Sikh Shaheed you first need to be a Sikh and then to have kept this Sikhee faith at the time of sacrifice.

A Sikh Shaheed has a special place in the here after, they have their own special duties and role. Not everyone can get this privilege.
Any one that has given his life for a noble cause will always be rewarded and may even given the chance to live the life of a Sikh.

Society has given certain people titles but those titles don’t carry over in to the next world unless they match the criteria. People like Udham Singh and Bhagat Singh can only really be classified as Indian Azaadee movement Martyrs/Shaheeds not as Sikh Shaheeds.

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: Sukhdeep SIngh (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2009 02:07PM

I often wonder why people like Bhagat Singh get classified as Shaheed in SIkhi? ITs unfair to place Bhagat SIngh in the same category as Shaheeds like Bhai Mati Das, BHai Sati Das, Baba Deep Singh Ji, BHai Mani Singh Ji, Bhai Taru Singh JI, Bhai Fauja Singh , Sant Jarnail SIngh.

The Singhs above where living matrys who offered their head to Guru Ji and died to destory the slavery of the people, while Bhagat did not offer his head or anything else to GUru Ji.

 



Re: Who is a Shaheed?
Posted by: admin (IP Logged)
Date: June 02, 2010 08:12AM

Bump

 





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