VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,VahegurooJeeKeeFateh!

Khalsa Jeeo,

Could Gursikhs offer answers regarding the following questions:

- Do particular Puraatan Hand-written Saroops follow a singular convention regards the positioning of Manglacharan i.e. in some Saroops are ALL the Manglacharan before the Shabad and Shabad title or are they ALL after or does the convention vary throughout a particular Saroop? I ask this because at the moment I always read Manglacharan before the Shabad title and want to check that I am not unintentionally altering the order of GurbaaNee as I read in the mistaken belief that the positioning of Manglacharan is uniform throughout The whole Saroop.

- Do all Puraatan hand-written Saroops display GurbaaNee is such a way that when the limits of the right-hand side of the Ang are reached ‘correct pad-ched’ is applied so that the Panktee can continue on the next line below? Or do they all feature GurbaaNee in such a way that the Panktee continues in a stream without any regards to pad-ched at the end of the Panktee? The latter is what I have seen in the Saroops I have had Darshan of but I haven’t had Darshan of many Saroops. Or do both conventions occur?

- Regarding printed LaReevaar Saroops, do they all feature pad-ched at end of Pankteeaan or do they all flow regardless of pad-ched concerns or again, does this vary from one Saroop to another?

Dhanvaad.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

I'll have to preface my answer by saying I'm no expert and have seen a limited number of puratan saroops myself.

1) I have seen one puratan saroop with all the mangals first. The SGPC printed saroops with all the mangals first in the 50s I believe but were forced by the Sant Samaj to change this. There is no saroop that has them all afterwards. There is no doubt in my mind that the mangals have been confused and mixed in present day saroops. For example it's an accepted fact that the mangal for Sukhmani Sahib goes at the start but today for some reason it comes after the salok which makes no sense at all.

I personally also read all the mangals first.

2) Puratan saroops do not try to do a correct pad-chhed with the end of the line. The words are split. Modern day printed saroops usually end a line with the complete word but not always. There are some lines where the word is split but not too often.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Khalsa jio,

Gurbani research subject is very new to us so we have not much knowledge about puratan saroops, but the point Bhai Balpreet Singh ji made is very true. In some (may be most) Sanchees the 2nd sanchee started from Panna 721. while doing paath one day our surti stucked on begining of following Shabad which is the first shabad of 2nd sanchee. Then did some research and found out that most of the panth agreed upon on correct these Manglacharan but the so called SANT CORPORATION PVT LIMITED had played role not to correct it. Now the following mangla charan is before us. Is this is correct?

ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧
ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ਯਕ ਅਰਜ ਗੁਫਤਮ ਪੇਸਿ ਤੋ ਦਰ ਗੋਸ ਕੁਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥
ਹਕਾ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਰੀਮ ਤੂ ਬੇਐਬ ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰ ॥੧॥
ਦੁਨੀਆ ਮੁਕਾਮੇ ਫਾਨੀ ਤਹਕੀਕ ਦਿਲ ਦਾਨੀ ॥
ਮਮ ਸਰ ਮੂਇ ਅਜਰਾਈਲ ਗਿਰਫਤਹ ਦਿਲ ਹੇਚਿ ਨ ਦਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,VahegurooJeeKeefateh!

Veer/Bhain 'Khalsaspirit' Jee,

what makes the above Shabad significant when it comes to the placement of Manglacharan as compared to other Shabads?

Dhanvaad.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Atma Singh jio,

We could not get your question clearly correct us if we are wrong

1) Because of after the raag, mehla and ghar of in this Shabad the mangla charan became the first tuk of Shabad. By doing so the next tuk which benti to Kartar became 2nd tuk. and whole shabad is benti da shabad which changes the Bhav of Shabad.
2) Language difference.
3) Manglacharan became part of Raag Tilang.
4) When you do keertan you must sing it but usally mangla charan is not sung while doing keertan.

Those are differences according to our tush budhi we can see and we might be all wrong.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

vaheguroojeekakhalsa,vaheguroojeekeefateh!

sadh sangat jeeo,

this raises interesting issues re: modern day printed laReevaar saroops.

personally, i think that not only should all saroops be laReevaar but that they should be 'completely laReevaar' in the sense that no attention should be paid to the way pankteeaa(n) end.

in my lifetime i think i've had darshan of only 4 printed laReevaar saroops. one of these definitely didn't pay attention to how pankteeaa(n) ended. i know because when i started attempting to do paath from it, it gave me a surprise. upto then, all the senchiyaa(n) and potheeaa(n) i'd done paath from featured 'pad-ched considerations' at the end of pankteeaa(n) - in fact it was not an issue i was previously aware of.

ps - those who wish to do paath abhiyaas via a 'completely laReevaar' panj granthee should obtain the one distributed by damdamee taksaal (mehta). it is kesree in colour and also happens to be very well produced in terms of binding and printing quality - probably the best i've seen in terms of potheeaa(n) of that size.

maharaaj jee dee kirpa naal, we should have a quantity of these to distribute in the uk very soon...

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ