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Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: blacklion (IP Logged)
Date: September 04, 2008 06:39AM

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Guru Pyare Jio,

I have a question on Shabad on Ang 1136 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj beginning with

vrq n rhau n mh rmdwnw




and ending with

khu kbIr iehu kIAw vKwnw ]
gur pIr imil Kuid Ksmu pCwnw ]5]3]




The shabad is attributed to Sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee Maharaj, but why is Guru Ji saying "Kaho Kabeer" instead of "Nanak"? This is puzzling me. I have tried to search information on this, but found nothing, and everywhere it seems to be credited the same. I do not have access to Guru Maharaj outside internet though. Apologies, if I said anything wrong or foolish. I am very poor in Sikhi. With thanks

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: September 04, 2008 06:58AM

Blacklion jeeo,


Quote:
I have a question on Shabad on Ang 1136 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj beginning with

ਵਰਤ ਨ ਰਹਉ ਨ ਮਹ ਰਮਦਾਨਾ

and ending with

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹੁ ਕੀਆ ਵਖਾਨਾ ॥
ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਖੁਦਿ ਖਸਮੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥5॥

The shabad is attributed to Sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee Maharaj, but why is Guru Ji saying "Kaho Kabeer" instead of "Nanak"? This is puzzling me. I have tried to search information on this, but found nothing, and everywhere it seems to be credited the same. I do not have access to Guru Maharaj outside internet though. Apologies, if I said anything wrong or foolish. I am very poor in Sikhi. With thanks

The reason why Guru Sahib has used 'Kabir' is because this shabad is addressed to Bhagat Kabir jee i.e. it is doing viyakhia of some shabad of Bhagat Kabir jee. There are other instances too where Siri Guru jee has used 'Kabir' pen name when addressing Bhagat jee. I will try to find examples soon. If someone else can post such shabads, it would be great.

Kulbir Singh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2008 08:42AM by admin.

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: blacklion (IP Logged)
Date: September 04, 2008 01:50PM

I see.. Vaheguru.. Would be interesting to hear more. Thanks so much.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: blacklion (IP Logged)
Date: September 04, 2008 02:17PM

Ok, found something.

Sri Guru Amar Daas Jee Maharaj in Raag Gujri Ang 509:

kbIr mukiq duAwrw sMkuVw rweI dsvY Bwie ] (509-16, gUjrI kI vwr, mÚ 3)




Also over Angs 1160-1162 there is a string of Shabads by Sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee Maharaj addressed to Bhagat Kabeer Jee.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: September 05, 2008 05:40AM

ssa

how will you differentiate between when the word 'Kabir' refers to the personality or the arabic adjective?

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: September 05, 2008 06:58AM

Navjot jee,

Quote:
how will you differentiate between when the word 'Kabir' refers to the personality or the arabic adjective?

You have to look at the context in which this word is used to figure out if this word is used as an adjective for Vaheguru or for Bhagat Kabir jee. In some places even Bhagat Kabir jee has used this word to describe Vaheguru. Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee in the beginning shabad of Raag Tilang has used the word Kabir to describe as follows:

ਯਕ ਅਰਜ ਗੁਫਤਮ ਪੇਸਿ ਤੋ ਦਰ ਗੋਸ ਕੁਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥
ਹਕਾ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਰੀਮ ਤੂ ਬੇਐਬ ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰ ॥1॥

'Kabir' means great or vadda.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: September 05, 2008 07:03AM

Blacklion jeeo,

Quote:
Ok, found something.
Sri Guru Amar Daas Jee Maharaj in Raag Gujri Ang 509:

ਕਬੀਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਸੰਕੁੜਾ ਰਾਈ ਦਸਵੈ ਭਾਇ ॥ (509-16, ਗੂਜਰੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ, ਮਃ

This salok actually is of Bhagat Kabir jee and not of Siri Guru Amardaas jee. The Vaar surely belongs to Siri Guru Amardaas jee but this means that all pauris belong to Siri Guru Amardaas jee and saloks belong different Guru Sahibaan and Bhagat Sahibaan.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: blacklion (IP Logged)
Date: September 05, 2008 02:32PM

kulbir singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ਕਬੀਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ
> ਸੰਕੁੜਾ ਰਾਈ ਦਸਵੈ
> ਭਾਇ ॥ (509-16, ਗੂਜਰੀ ਕੀ
> ਵਾਰ, ਮਃ
>
> This salok actually is of Bhagat Kabir jee and not
> of Siri Guru Amardaas jee. The Vaar surely belongs
> to Siri Guru Amardaas jee but this means that all
> pauris belong to Siri Guru Amardaas jee and saloks
> belong different Guru Sahibaan and Bhagat
> Sahibaan.
>
> Kulbir Singh

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Bhai Sahib Jee,

Many thanks for the clarification. Everything makes complete sense now when reading what comes after. Guru Sahib Jee is explaining further on those words of Bhagat Jee.

By the way, can someone please expand on the context/meaning of that string of Shabads of Sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee mentioned above. Am I right if I suggest that these are perhaps Shabads/poems of Bhagat Kabeer Jee that Guru Sahib Jee has written down in his own words? Perhaps even for the first time, meaning that they would have been something that had been passed on only orally before? Or are they partly Bhagat Jee's words and partly Guru Sahib's in the same way as in the example above? Nevertheless these are some beautiful, powerful Shabads. I was also surprised to find out that the famous sakhi of Bhagat Kabeer Jee being thrown into river is actually from one of these Shabads of Guru Sahib and not of Bhagat Jee's Shabads. If someone can elaborate on these things in any way, I am very interested in hearing more.

Apologies for any mistakes.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: ramansingh (IP Logged)
Date: September 06, 2008 07:40PM

ਬੁਨਨਾ ਤਨਨਾ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਕੈ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਚਰਨ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥
ਨੀਚ ਕੁਲਾ ਜੋਲਾਹਰਾ ਭਇਓ ਗੁਨੀਯ ਗਹੀਰਾ ॥੧॥

 



Re: Question on Shabad - Varat Na Raho Na Mah Ramadaanaa
Posted by: blacklion (IP Logged)
Date: September 29, 2008 02:44PM

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

On a side note, Al-Kabeer is also one of the names of Allah to the Musalman, which means something exaltedly great, the Greatest, or the Only Great. Do not know, if this has any effect on the use or understanding of this word in Gurbani?

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 





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