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Amrit
Posted by: NoorKaur (IP Logged)
Date: August 24, 2008 03:21PM

VJKK VJKF

I just wanted to ask advice regarding the issue of Amrit. Recently I was asked some questions about this topic by a family member. I thought I had a lot of things clear about this but she made me think about a lot of things and unfortunately this has led to a lot of doubts.
I will list what was discussed and hopefully someone knowledgeable can address these points.

1. Why is it necessary to take Amrit? Are Sikhs who have not been baptised lesser Sikhs, and what are they then called?

2. Where does it state clearly the Rehit we are supposed to follow? She mentioned that a lot of Rehtnaamey were lost and some were distorted, so who approved them and made the chosen ones a base to the maryada we have today?

3. The Khalsa and the rules it must follow is very masculine, it cannot be possible that the Guru's did not see the feminine qualities of women as a gift from God and that men and women are certainly worth of equal OPPORTUNITIES, but they cannot be EQUAL as they are biologically different for a reason, therefore why must a woman wear Keski, and although this is a sensitive issue, what is the answer to the non-practicality of wearing a kachera for a woman on her periods. She also mentioned that the Guru's wore jewellery and fine clothes, so why were these restricted for the Sikhs?

4. This was the most important one as I have children and this is important to me. She asked what we should teach our children, force them to take Amrit or give them guidance to take Amrit? This was my suggestion although she mentioned people who take Amrit become too arrogant and form cults or segregate themselves from the rest society which is not practical in the foreign countries we live in.

I hope someone can respond to the points, many thanks in advance.

VJKK VJKF

N Kaur

 



Re: Amrit
Posted by: mpsingh86 (IP Logged)
Date: August 25, 2008 12:24AM

Noor Kaur JI,

Instead of Pointing so many questions over Sikhi, Better do Satnam Vaheguru Jaap daily for 40 days, then u moght realise what Satguru wants from Us instead of pinting at Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Rehat Meryada, Amrit Sanchaar, Feminine and Masculine qualities.

Who told Sikhs are not allowed to wear Jewellry. THe world shud know the Satguru Is rich and his Sikhs are also rich but maintain Nimrata in your heart(most Important).

Answer to all ur Problems is 'Faith','Bhorasa'. If u Have Faith on Satguru, u would do anything possible to Please him and get his Bhaksish.

There are 6bn people around the worl who point out questions over guru's teachings, Jesus Christ Teachings,Mohammad Sahib's Teachings.

Please Please have little faith over your Guru and See the effect.
DO BIT OF JATAN TO MOVE TOWARDS THE HOUSE OF GURU AND YOU WILL SEE GURU WOULD TAKE SEVERAL STEPS TO COME NEAR YOU.

BECOME BEGGERS OF HIS HOUSE. HE Doesnot see whether we are male or female. Its Prema Bagati. Saach Kahon Sun Leho Sabe. Jin Prem Kioo Tin hi Prabh Paayo.

 



Re: Amrit
Posted by: NoorKaur (IP Logged)
Date: August 25, 2008 06:45AM

Firstly, these were not my questions, and I didnt post on here to be attacked and my questions to be ignored.
Secondly, when your child asks you why he/she cannot cut their hair then ask them to do 40 days Jaap, that will really explain and remove their doubts. No wonder half the kids I know in the school I work in dont keep their Kesh and are completely confused by Sikhism.
I do trust Guru Sahib, and I do practise Sikhi and I dont need to mention that to people. At the end of the day we live in the world, in society and we cant just brush our kids questions off by saying go do some Path and have faith, they will simply call this blind faith. Nimarta and Pyar for the Guru is important and foremost I agree with you, but a solid foundation (Rehit) is needed to develop this for kids and people who live in the type of world we live in today.
I am not questioning the Rehit, I just want to understand it, I know everything Guru Sahib has done is for a valid reason. I also believe the Guru's are not against their Sikhs having opinions and curious minds, that is what a Sikh (seeker) should have anyway.

VJKK VJKF

 



Re: Amrit
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 25, 2008 07:03AM

Bhain Noor Kaur jeeo,

Quote:
1. Why is it necessary to take Amrit? Are Sikhs who have not been baptised lesser Sikhs, and what are they then called?

Sikhi is not a race or a caste that you would become a Sikh automatically if your parents are Sikhs. If your parents are of a certain race, you belong to that race automatically. If Your parents belong to a certain caste, you are of that caste automatically. But if your parents are doctor, you don't become a doctor automatically. Same way, if your parents are Sikhs, you don't become a Sikh automatically. Sikh is one who has a Guru. One has to adopt Sikhi by making an informed decision to become a Sikh. Taking amrit is that ceremony where a person adopts Sikhi. A Sikh is then blessed with Naam and thus equipped with necessary things to meet Vaheguru. Therefore, a person who has not yet taken amrit is not a Sikh. Such person may be a shardhaaloo but not a Sikh. Sikh is one who gives one's head to Guru and in return gets Naam and amrit.


Quote:
2. Where does it state clearly the Rehit we are supposed to follow? She mentioned that a lot of Rehtnaamey were lost and some were distorted, so who approved them and made the chosen ones a base to the maryada we have today?

Whether you follow SGPC rehit, AKJ rehit or Taksali rehit, 95 percent of rehit is same. It's just small differences here and there that Guru Sahib willing will wrinkle out in due time. My personal advice is to follow the pristine AKJ version of Gurmat rehit but if you must follow other version of rehit then just remember a couple of things. Don't eat meat and do wear a dastaar on your head. Keep Gurmat Bibek rehit i.e. eating from hands of Gursikhs only. Rest Guru Sahib will lead you to correct rehit, if your bhaags (fortune) allow.


Quote:
3. The Khalsa and the rules it must follow is very masculine, it cannot be possible that the Guru's did not see the feminine qualities of women as a gift from God and that men and women are certainly worth of equal OPPORTUNITIES, but they cannot be EQUAL as they are biologically different for a reason, therefore why must a woman wear Keski, and although this is a sensitive issue, what is the answer to the non-practicality of wearing a kachera for a woman on her periods. She also mentioned that the Guru's wore jewellery and fine clothes, so why were these restricted for the Sikhs?

They are equal in the sense that both have equal chance and opportunity of meeting Vaheguru and attaining salvation. In order to do so, they both have been blessed with equal rehit, equal nitnem, same kakaars, and hukam to avoid same kurehits. As for wearing keski, women must wear keski because it is one of the five kakaars. Even if you don't consider it a kakaar, still it must be worn by amritdhari women because without this rehit a woman can never be classified as Khalsa (She just does not look like a Khalsa as dastaar wearing men do). Regarding wearing kachherra, I don't know what's the problem with wearing kachherra since so many amritdhari women wear it. Regarding jewellery, Guru Sahib has instructed both men and women to be modest in what they wear and jewellery has been restricted for Khalsa men and women.


Quote:
4. This was the most important one as I have children and this is important to me. She asked what we should teach our children, force them to take Amrit or give them guidance to take Amrit? This was my suggestion although she mentioned people who take Amrit become too arrogant and form cults or segregate themselves from the rest society which is not practical in the foreign countries we live in.

Children of Khalsa men and women must be given amrit as soon as possible after birth. This is the maryada of Khalsa order. As for they becoming arrogant, I don't think amrit would make anyone so. As for segregation from society, it is hukam of Guru Sahib to have love for all irrespective of religion, race or creed but to associate and socialize with Khalsa only. One becomes what one's company is and to became Bhagats or devotees of Vaheguru one must keep company of devotees to the max.

Looks like your friend/familiy member needs to do some reading. It would be a good idea for your friend to read Sikh history and books of Gurmukhs like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir and Bhai Sahib Vir Singh jee.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Amrit
Posted by: ns (IP Logged)
Date: August 25, 2008 06:53PM

Ik Oangkaar Satgurparsaad

It is absolutely essential to take amrit. According to Baba Iqbal Singh Jee Mastuane (after Sant Attar Singh jee and Sant Teja Singh Jee mastuane) taking amrit is the FIRST asool (rule) in Sikhism. He quotes a rehatnama that says that the FIRST rehat for a Sikh is to take khanday kee pahul (take amrit). Bhai Saheb Randhir Singh Jee and another mahapurkh I know say the same thing.

The purpose of taking amrit is two-fold:
1) Guru dhaarnaa - to adopt Guru Saheb as your Guru and to become His disciple (Sikh).
2) To get the gift of Naam.

When you take amrit you offer your head to the Guru and you say from now on I am your disciple (Sikh) and you are my Guru. This entitles you to all the priveleges and BLESSINGS of having Guru Saheb as Guru. Without taking amrit one cannot make this claim of being a disciple (Sikh) of the Guru. SPIRITUALLY the "link" has not yet been made of being Guru-disciple, i.e. Guru-Sikh. Without taking amrit one is still "nigura" (without Guru). A nigura can still get benefit from gurbani but the same bani has more effect if you are amritdhari. Bhai Saheb Randhir Singh Jee very clearly writes that the effect of Naam simran will only be "safal" (fruitful), and yield the desired results if you have been blessed with Naam from the 5 pyaray. The only source for Naam is from Guru Saheb and this is through the 5 pyaray when you take amrit. Without taking amrit, the person is without Naam. Naam is described as being like a Divine Soap that after much meditation makes us pure.

When we take amrit we are born into the family of the Guru and become "Singhs" and "Kaurs". We become the sons and daughters of our spiritual Father Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Those who are not yet amritdhari may have the outward form of Sikhs but without having taken amrit are NOT yet sons and daughters of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and are not spiritually Singhs and Kaurs YET.

If one wants to make the "SPIRITUAL" bond of being a Sikh of the Guru it is ESSENTIAL to take amrit. If one wants to be a son/daughter of Guru Gobind Singh Jee one has to take amrit. If one wants Naam (that which is glorified in the whole of Guru Granth Saheb Jee), one HAS to take amrit from the 5 pyaray.

In terms of rehat it is very important to remember that there are 4 "bajjar kurehat" that BREAK our relation with Guru. These are: 1) cutting kes 2) eating meat/fish 3) consuming alcohol and drugs 4) adultery. Some misguided people say that eating non-halal meat is alright, but all the sants (including Sant Attar Singh Jee Mastuane, Bhai Saheb Randhir Singh Jee, Baba Karam Singh Hoti Mardan, Baba Nand Singh Jee, Rarraywalay Babajee, etc etc..) all preach that eating meat breaks the relation with Guru. (This topic is a separate one). My point is that the basic minimum rehat one HAS to keep is to avoid the above four. If one has the desire to be a disciple of the Guru, to be a son/daughter of Guru, to be blessed with Naam, and can avoid the above four then one is ready to take amrit and should do so as soon as possible. One should NOT take amrit from a jatha where any of the 5 pyaray eat meat, because a power called "amrit kalaa" cannot exist where there is meat. (Again a separate topic).

I think one very effective thing is to pray sincerely for answers from God. Rarraywalay Babajee said one should pray for 1) forgiveness 2) sangat 3) naam. If we pray for sangat of gurmukhs and God hears our prayer, we can be influenced by them. Guru works through his pyaray. Some people are needlessly afraid of taking amrit because they think it will be difficult. The basic rehat of avoiding the 4 bajjar kurehat is quite easy. The rest one can slowly develop after having taken amrit and become "Guru-walay" so that Guru is helping at each step. An historical point in support of this approach is that during the original amrit sanchaar in 1699 many people didn't even know how to read let alone know how to read 5 banis. They took amrit anyway, and slowly learned afterwards. I'm sure some still were unable to do 5 banis. If one is unable to read properly, a mahapurkh told me one can always do naam simran. Taking amrit is merely the first step, and one shouldn't be afraid.

 



Re: Amrit
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: September 01, 2008 04:46PM

"She asked what we should teach our children"

All sikhs should, if possible, make sure their children:

1) can read/understand Gurmukhi scipt
2) Understand that Guru Granth is Guru, that it is just as if Guru Nanak is sitting there

this is my humble opinion

 



Re: Amrit
Posted by: Arwinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: September 01, 2008 09:52PM

Noor Kaur Ji

Any Sikh who follows Guru Nanak's path will have to read Guru's hukam as enshrined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Guru's bani is Amrit and every Sikh must take it.

As for as Initiation ceremony is concerned during Guru Sahib's lifetime Sikhs in order to surrender themselves to Guru's path will take Guru's Charan Pahul (water with which Guru's feet were washed). When Tenth Nanak ended the line of Guruship and bestowed Guruship to Guru Granth and Guru Panth it is necessary for Sikhs to take Khande-De-Pahul. Most people mistakingly call it Amrit but its not Amrit but Khande-De-Pahul.

Initiation to Guru Khalsa Panth requires baptismal ceremoney of Khande-De-Pahul. By doing so we attach ourself and submit ourself to Khanda. Now you must understand what is Khanda (Double Edged Sword)

Khanda is symbol of Knowledge and its two sides means it cuts on all sides the drakness as in ignorance. This is same Khanda that Mahatma Budha used and made Brahamnism disappear from seats of influence. The same Khanda was used by Boddhisatva to spread the teachings of Mahatma Budha in china, japan, sri lanka. The same Khanda is being used by Dalai Lama to spread the teachings of Mahatma Budha in western World these days.

Its the same Khanda that Guru Gobind Singh attached the Khalsa to and said 'Sawa Laakh Sei Ek Laraou Tabeh Gobing Singh Naam Dharoun'. Khanda in Gurmat is not a weapon or Military equipment.

 



Re: Amrit
Posted by: NoorKaur (IP Logged)
Date: September 09, 2008 01:27PM

Gurfateh Jee

Thanks for your replies. I understand and agree with everything, I just don't understand what a Sikh woman's role would be and whether it would be practical for her to live according to the Rehit. I just feel that in our literature that we still have intact there is very little reference to women and whether they should take Amrit etc. I have spoken to some people who actually believe women should take Kirpan da Amrit which is even more confusing, and Namdharis believe women shouldn't take it at all. I wish we had clear cut instructions for everything.

Fateh

 





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