ਚੁਕਾਰਅਜ਼ਹਮਹਹੀਲਤੇਦਰਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ॥ਹਲਾਲਅਸਤਬੁਰਦਨਬਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰਦਸਤ॥੨੨॥ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥)

Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai


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Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: August 22, 2008 06:03AM

Atma singh

you first paragraph is confusing. I am not debating universality of what is written in paath. where did that come from? You are talking about muslim holymen. This point refers back to you.

"so the question is, how will you decide when doing paath if maharaaj jee is saying allaho or allah? will you decide this upon the basis of who you think they are addressing?"

no i will decide the pronunciation according to what is WRITTEN, as per the letters used to form the words.

what 'many' say is not an accurate way of deciding anything. if it says Allahu I will pronounce it like that. Imagining what Guru Nanak might have said to whoever- I do not see the need or relevance of this. Nor do I understand this fixation on muslim holy men (which is abit of a theme on this site). Above the limitations of ones own understanding- which might be wrong or right- we have what is written. Muslims themselves say Allah-hu-Akbar. What is wrong with Allahu. Perhaps it is a grammatical way of saying 'Allah hu' (Allah Is)- e.g. affirming Gods existance, as opposed to writting Allah which is the pure Noun.

Again are we worried that by accepting the pronunciation as written, though it may be different from how others say it, we feel we are saying that Guru Nanak was illiterate? because we regard others so highly above ourselves? Well he traveled quite abit and it was Gurus own choice to write in Gurmukhi script (rather than Shahmukhi). you object to this accusation Atma Singh but then tell me what other reason is there for this doubt over pronunciation?

I do indeed pronounce 'dh'ram and yu'dh' with the same sounds. it is indeed the same sound. I can prove this- just join the two words- "yudh-dharam' and say 'yudharam'. tell me if the sound is not the same? the confusion is arising because 'dharam' is pronounced with a downard tone on the 'a' sound that comes after 'dh'. but the 'dh' is the same in both words. experiment for yourselves and tell me if i am wrong.

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 22, 2008 07:09AM

Navjot jee,

You have written repeatedly that in Punjabi there is only one sound for one alhpabet but you forget that Gurmukhi script of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee is not there to accomodate only Punjabi language. It contains words from Sanskrit, Farsi, Arabic, Sindhi, Punjabi, Marathi and many other languages. There are almost pure Farsi shabads in Gurbani. The alphabets are limited i.e. only 35 but sounds are more. Please ponder upon the following shabad from Tilang Raag:

ਯਕ ਅਰਜ ਗੁਫਤਮ ਪੇਸਿ ਤੋ ਦਰ ਗੋਸ ਕੁਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥
ਹਕਾ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਰੀਮ ਤੂ ਬੇਐਬ ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰ ॥1॥

ਦੁਨੀਆ ਮੁਕਾਮੇ ਫਾਨੀ ਤਹਕੀਕ ਦਿਲ ਦਾਨੀ ॥
ਮਮ ਸਰ ਮੂਇ ਅਜਰਾਈਲ ਗਿਰਫਤਹ ਦਿਲ ਹੇਚਿ ਨ ਦਾਨੀ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਜਨ ਪਿਸਰ ਪਦਰ ਬਿਰਾਦਰਾਂ ਕਸ ਨੇਸ ਦਸਤੰਗੀਰ ॥
ਆਖਿਰ ਬਿਅਫਤਮ ਕਸ ਨ ਦਾਰਦ ਚੂੰ ਸਵਦ ਤਕਬੀਰ ॥2॥

ਸਬ ਰੋਜ ਗਸਤਮ ਦਰ ਹਵਾ ਕਰਦੇਮ ਬਦੀ ਖਿਆਲ ॥
ਗਾਹੇ ਨ ਨੇਕੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਰਦਮ ਮਮ ੲˆØੀ ਚਿਨੀ ਅਹਵਾਲ ॥3॥

ਬਦਬਖਤ ਹਮ ਚੁ ਬਖੀਲ ਗਾਫਿਲ ਬੇਨਜਰ ਬੇਬਾਕ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਬੁਗੋਯਦ ਜਨੁ ਤੁਰਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਚਾਕਰਾਂ ਪਾ ਖਾਕ ॥4॥1॥

This shabad was uttered by Siri Guru jee for a Persian person. In this shabad, Siri Guru jee has spoken predominently Farsi. The pronounciation also must have been naturally Farsi. I can't see why Guru Sahib would insist in speaking impure Farsi by speaking Z as J and Sh and S and Kh like Punjabi instead of Farsi Khe. Note the following about this shabad:

1) ਅਰਜ is pronounced as Arz and not as Arj. ਪੇਸਿ is pronounced as Pesh and not as Pes. This Farsi shabad written in Gurmukhi proves that the albhabet 'ਜ' has sound of both J and Z. Same way the 'ਸ' has the sound of both S and Sh. Furthermore, the 'ਫ' in ਗੁਫਤਮ is pronounced as 'F' and not as 'Ph' as in Punjabi.

2) ਜਨ in the para after Rahao, means woman and should be pronounced as Zan and not as Jan. Jan is a masculine gender noun in Punjabi and it means servant but Zan means woman in Farsi. Over here the pronounciation is Zan. and this way the alphabet 'ਜ' in olden days had the sound of both z and j.

3) ਸਬ in 3rd para should be pronounced as Shab and not as Sab. Shab means evening in Farsi and Sab means everything.

I could go through the whole shabad and list more examples but if you are not going to be convinced with above stated three examples, three more examples will not convince you either.

It is wrong to judge and read Punjabi through the lenses of Punjabi and Punjabi too of rural area. Gurmukhi is not Punjabi. Gurmukhi is Sant-Bhaasha that contains from many languages. To insist that should read Gurbani like rural area Punjabi is totally absurd.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: xzik101 (IP Logged)
Date: August 22, 2008 08:25AM

Until recently Dasam Granth did not have bindis in it. But they do now especially for the farsi words. Many banis like Zafar nama which were originally written in the Persian script but later written in the Gurmukhi script did not have bindi in it simply because during the olden times people knew where to add bindis. Today many people confuse Punjabi rules with Gurmukhi as a result we no longer have knowledge of where and when to pronounce Zaza and Shasha to farsi words, and now people have started adding bindis in Dasam Granth because they think that Punjabi and language of Gurbani are the same. I've seen many people wrongly pronounce the famous words of Guru Gobind Singh Jee in Zafarnama when he said:

"When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand"

the right way of saying it is:
Chu kar az hama helte dar guzasht|| halal ast burdan b shamshir dast||

the wrong way of saying it is:
Chu kar aj hama helte dar gujast|| hala ast burdan b samsir dast||


Unfortunately, most people I hear say it the wrong way. Gurbani is Sant Bhasha or Sant Boli, I don't know why people call it Punjabi. In Punjabi we say Dhi and Dha but in Gurbani it is Ki and Ka.

Even when we say Fateh we say:
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

We don't say
Waheguru Ji dha khalsa, Waheguru Ji dhi Fateh.

Let’s not confuse Punjabi with Sant Bhasha, they are not the same.

Also, even in Punjabi, I don't know where you got this whole thing about Punjabis not pronouncing Zaza and Shasha. Rural (pendu) Punjabi is not considered the standard refined Punjabi language. Punjabi Taksali boli is a refined language which does in fact use Zaza and Shasha sounds. Pick up any Punjabi book about the 1971 war, and there you will see that they pronounce those words by writing "Bangladesh" and "Niazi", not Bangladess and Niaji. Every Lahori I've met pronounces the Z and Sh sounds which is where Guru Nanak Dev Jee came from.

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: August 22, 2008 08:52AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Khalsa jio,

Although the original topic was different but just like to add one more thing to add, according to Bhai Sahib Bhai Joginder Singh ji Talwara they have seen puratan hand written saroops that where 'Sh' sound is required scribers bended the right leg of Sassa to denote the 'Sh' sound. Number of times we mentioned this before and mention again that we are very convinced by the research done Bhai Sahib for which he spent almost four decades of his life. His recommendations which also include hand writing of Saroops in future not printing should be implemented right way. We can tell you for sure that if Panth decides to apply his recommendations and findings today we all will be on right track of Gurbani word Standardization, Ucharan and no more several Arths of one word. His all research leads to most Gurbani errors/mistakes free available to entire Panth. This implementation should be Panth’s urgent goal than any other task.
This year is 300th year of Guru Ship of Guru Granth Sahib, what a sad situation we have in Sikh masses that we do not even have standard Gurbani available yet, its Ucharan and Arths. WHAT A SHAME. What is point of celebrating 300th tercentennial year if we are not paying any tribute to Guru Sahib. Do we think that huge gatherings for celebrations will pay that tribute????? We hope this crisis will be over sooner than later but only depends upon Sikh masses not just a single Jatha or few Vidvaans.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: August 22, 2008 12:55PM

ssa

1. I only used rural panjabi as a tangent point that it is NOT SO MUCH influenced by MODERN TRENDS. i did NOT say todays rural panjabi= panjabi used in Guru Granth. Probably I should stop using the word panjabi to describe Guru Granths language in sofar as how different modern panjabi is but traditional panjabi is the closest language to it that I know of.

And there is no such thing as 'Sant Basha', used in the sense that there was a specific language of this name.

2. "according to Bhai Sahib Bhai Joginder Singh ji Talwara they have seen..." as interesting as this sounds saying that someone saw something is not helpful to us. We need to see the primary evidence for ourselves. We can not accept hearsay.

3. Kulbir Singh

"It contains words..." it does not mean these words have not been made into Panjabi. words are imported into languages. Just like all indian languages have converted Sanskrit words into their native sounds.

naturally with the 'Farsi worship' that goes on around here you decided to chose Farsi type-language sloaks from all these languages.

"In this shabad, Siri Guru jee has spoken predominently Farsi." Predominately Farsi or completely Farsi? Because the follow on point ("The pronounciation also must have been naturally Farsi") only applies if it is completely Farsi. If it is not completely Farsi what is it? Some sort of mullah basha perhaps.

'Impure' Farsi? To have spoken Farsi in Panjab with a Panjabi accent would be impure? Not that I am going to speculate on what Guru Nanak did. I do not see how using ones own imagination can be a guiding principle here because people can imagine all kinds of things.

The jump from Arz to Arj is not that big. just like the jump from desh to des is not so imcomprehensable. Same with every other example you gave. Even with Jan. In the context it would be clear what was meant.

by the way should we even be refering to that language as Farsi? Wasnt the Persian back then called Pahlavi?

4. I AM NOT putting up this stuff as advice on how to read or pronounce paath. Im not a linguist or very knowledgable person and im wearing my thoughts/reasoning on my sleeve here. If people can see obvious flaws in my reasoning then all the better for everyone else.

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 22, 2008 01:11PM

Navjot jee,

I don't know what you are trying to say above. You obviously have different ideas about Gurbani paath. In another thread you had mentioned that you don't believe in placing bishraams while doing paath. We believe in bishraams and also in vishesh dhunis for certain alphabets while doing paath. We could be wrong and don't claim any authority on Gurbani paath. We are doing paath as we have been taught by Gursikhs in santhiya.

There are many schools of thought on Gurbani uchaaran. Your school of thought that does not believe in bishraams while doing paath and also insists on doing paath of Gurbani as a Rural Punjabi would, is a new addition to already numerous schools of Gurbani uchaaran.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: August 23, 2008 04:24AM

what i adovocate is simple appraoch; speak what is written as it is written. nothing more.

i wonder if there is an existing ucharan school that agrees with me.

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Matheen (IP Logged)
Date: August 23, 2008 01:19PM

navjot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what i adovocate is simple appraoch; speak what
> is written as it is written. nothing more.
>
-------------------------------------------------------
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Veer Ji, there are no commas in Gurmukhi, so it is important to know where to pause (vishraam). Pausing in the wrong place can change the meaning of a sentence.

Some words are written one way but pronounced differently, even in English. For example: 'Christ' is pronounced 'kriste' etc etc. Where we know the correct pronunciation, this should be used. It is still important to memorise Gurbani as it is written, though, so we can keep the original form intact in the future.

The oldest schools in Sikhi date back to Guru Ji's time and have preserved Guru Ji's teachings for us, IMHO.

Back to the original topic: the version posted by Bhai Sahib appears in historic texts and is correct. Some modern, faithless preachers don't believe that Guru Ji had any Shakti so they change stories to fit their beliefs.

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: August 27, 2008 01:50PM

Waheguru ji ak kahlsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Matheen jio,

Quote "there are no commas in Gurmukhi, so it is important to know where to pause (vishraam). Pausing in the wrong place can change the meaning of a sentence."
You are right here.

navjot jio,

Please ponder upon this simple Pankiti and see how important is short pauses and Bishrams are:

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ Panna 1040

Guru Mehar karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 28, 2008 06:44AM

What a beautiful example you have given Khalsaspirit jeeo. If one places a bishraam after 'ਨ ' of this pankiti - ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ - only then the correct meaning can be derived. The correct meaning is - without Guru there is no mukti, and one comes and goes (i.e. takes birth and dies).

If you place a bishraam after ਮੁਕਤਿ , then the meaning would be that without Guru one gets mukti and one does not come and go i.e. does not take birth and dies. What a disaster of meanings it would be. So correct bishraams are important.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: August 28, 2008 07:28AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ॥

ਭਾਈ ਕੁਲਬੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀਉ,

ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਅਥਾਹ ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਵਿਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਐਸੇ ਐਸੇ ਹੀਰੇ ਮੋਤੀ ਜਵਾਹਰ ਤੇ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਲਾਲ ਰੱਖੇ ਹੋਏ ਨੇ ਕਿ ਕਿਸੇ ਇਕ ਤੇ ਵੀ ਨਿਗਾਹ ਪੈ ਜਾਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਐਸੇ ਨਦਰੋਂ ਨਿਹਾਲ ਜੋ ਜਾਈਦਾ ਕਿ ਬਸ ਪੁਛੋ ਹੀ ਨਾ। ਕਿੰਨੀ ਖੂਬਸੂਰਤੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਪਕਤੀ ਵਿਚ ਭਰ ਦਿਤੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਿਰਫ ਇਕ ਅੱਖਰ ਹੀ ਉਹ ਵੀ ਕਿਸੇ ਲਗ ਮਾਤਰ ਤੋ ਮੁਕਤ ਐਸੀ ਖੇਡ ਵਰਤਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਹੇਰ ਫੇਰ ਕਰਨ ਤੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਮਹਾਨ ਵਡਿਆਈ (ਮੁਕਤ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ) ਨੂੰ ਛਿਨ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਘੋਰ ਅਵੱਗਿਆ ਵਿਚ ਬਦਲ ਕੇ ਰੱਖ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਇਥੇ "ਨ" ਅੱਖਰ ਦੇ ਹੱਥ ਵਿਚ ਕਿੰਨੀ ਤਾਕਤ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਾਂਹੀਉ ਤਾਂ ਅਗਾਧ ਬੋਧ ਅਖਵਾਂਉਦੀ ਹੈ।

ਗੂਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰਨ ਅਗਾਂਹ ਤੋਂ ਸ਼ੁੱਧ ਤੇ ਸ਼ਪੱਸ਼ਟ ਪਾਠ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਜਾਂਚ ਬਖਸ਼ਣ ਜੀ।

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ॥

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 28, 2008 09:13AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

khalsa jeeo,

let's first have darshan of the panktee as revealed:

ਬਿਨੁਗੁਰਮੁਕਤਿਨਆਵੈਜਾਵੈ

now, how about following way of doing bishraam - is it possible according to viyakaraN?

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ , ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ; ਜਾਵੈ

i.e. without the satguroo , mukhti cannot be received/will not arrive ; the person will have to leave i.e. without realising that 'gobind milan kee eh tereee bariaa'.

sometimes i think it helps to do paath of the panktees both before and after panktees such as this, if applicable. sometimes, the rhythm they follow with their bishraams can help us feel more informed when doing bishraams of panktees such as this.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: August 28, 2008 11:04AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Atama Singh jio,

As we explained above Gurbani has all the jewels needed for Jagasu. We will try to decipher your situation by Gurbani only. We do not know Gurbani viyakaran yet but we have bharosa on Guru Sahib that they answered every thing when we asked. Your assumption of bishram ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ , ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ; ਜਾਵੈ is not right. The reason is if we consider that "mukhti cannot be received/will not arrive" then ਜਾਵੈ alone do not tell anything means "leave to where?" ਭਾਵ ਕਿਥੇ ਨੂੰ ਜਾਵੈ?. So correct pause is ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ, ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

How a beginner or learner would know where to place right bishraam. We think either we should have santhyia from a Shudh Paathi Singh/Singhni or if do not have time or those circumstances for santhiya then Start a Sehaj Paath with a Ardass asking Guru Sahib to lead us for Shudh paath. We have bharosa that Guru Sahib will lead you, send someone to you or you will meet to a GurSikh who will be familiar with Gurbani Paath but key thing is Sehaj Paath and Gurbani Abhiyaas.

Now by reading following Pantkitis which came before, not just once or twice but thrice, after reading those your automatic bishraam will be ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ, ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਕੋਊ ਪਾਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੀ ॥੨॥ Panna ੪੯੫

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਭਾਈ ॥੪॥੫॥੭॥ Panna ੮੬੪

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈਐ ਮੀਤਾ ॥ Panna ੧੦੧੯

Bhai Atma Singh ji other key thing we would like to share with you whether you like it or not please ponder upon (if not done so) the quiz we posted about couple of months ago under "Dedicated to Guru Grant Sahib.." topic. This is our belief whoever started to pay close attention to laga matra Guru Sahib surely do more kirpa. As explained in other topic by Bhai Kulbir Singh jee about Bhai sahib Randhir Singh jee that how Bhai Sahib's surti got stuck on same word at three places in a dutuki having three different meaning just because of Lagamatra, which ended up with their scholarly work as GURBANI DIYAN LAGAMATRA(N) DI VILAKHANTA.

This year is Guru Sahib's tercentennial year we encourage every Guru ka Sikh to have their own Sehaj Paath (if not done before), every one should have complete Darshan of Guru Sahib.

Bhul Chook di maafi,

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: August 29, 2008 03:33PM

no no no!

such a SHORT sloak. sloaks by their nature are short. why do you think that it needs a bishram? the meaning is clear if you read it as it is.

cant you see what you are saying? that adding a bishram changes the meaning. which is EXACTLY why you shouldnt do it.

why dont you read it aloud and see for yourself.

I say that Gurbani sloaks need to be read as they are to completion to be understand. by inserting a bishram you are not only doing something unnecessary
but you are misleading yourself and others.

if we have humility then we do not need to satisfy ourselves that we understand what is Written, we can accept it when we do not understand rather than playing with bishraams etc

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: September 01, 2008 04:59PM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

navjot jio,

Help yourself! Your thought of having FREE STYLE Gurbani Ucharan would not be supported by any school of thought exists today. May be you can open up new one having express Ucharan of Gurbani without any short pauses or Bishrams but before opening up that school please ponder upon this pankiti which we also posted in another topic too from sri Anand Sahib:

ਅੰਗੀਕਾਰੁ ਓਹੁ ਕਰੇ ਤੇਰਾ ਕਾਰਜ ਸਭਿ ਸਵਾਰਣਾ ॥

If you are a Amritdhari Singh then you read this pankiti twice a day minimun which means 365x2=730 times a year. Now if we follow your free style Gurbani Ucharan then no matter its loud or soft your ucharan for ਅੰਗੀਕਾਰੁ ਓਹੁ would be together as ਅੰਗੀਕਾਰੋ leaving a complete word ਓਹੁ or eaten up a word ਜਾਂ ਇੰਝ ਕਹਿ ਲਈਏ ਨਿਗਲ ਗਿਆ but if you have a short pause after ਅੰਗੀਕਾਰੁ then this ਓਹੁ word will be kept in the uncharan and right meanings will come out. By doing express reading you are not only changing the meaning but also eating or missing a complete word. Hence it is very imporatnt to read Gurbani carefully with bishrams where they are required THE MOST. ਸੋ ਦੋਏ ਕਰ ਜੋੜ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਹੈ ਜੀ ਕਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਹਠ ਛੱਡੋ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਹਠ ਰਾਹੇ ਤਾਂ ਦੂਰ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਪਰ ਕੁਰਾਹੇ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਪਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ki khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib and the Haughty Pandit
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2008 03:28PM

khalsaspirit

no. what you suggest seems absurd to me. i would pronounce all the sounds that are written. so for me it would be 'angeekaarU ohU'. The 'Oh' or 'OOh' sound of Oora is distinct from the 'Uck' sound of the aunkar. this wouldnt be difficult to read in Lareedar format, as I would read it letter by letter.

 
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