ਚੁਕਾਰਅਜ਼ਹਮਹਹੀਲਤੇਦਰਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ॥ਹਲਾਲਅਸਤਬੁਰਦਨਬਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰਦਸਤ॥੨੨॥ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥)

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1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: ConfusedMunda (IP Logged)
Date: June 04, 2008 08:22AM

Fateh!

no1 has seemed to answer me so im guessing may be u can help me. It is said that

wheneva sikhs are in great trouble the gurus and the 40 mukte guard them. Even

when the Sukhmani Sahib paathh is done it is meant to protect one from any evil

spirits or evil humans. It says that the 40 mukte guard the place where the

Sukhmani Sahib ji is read with a true heart; and Guru Ji resides in all places

where patth is done. But veerji i fail to understand one thing; during the attack

on the Golden Temple, many sikhs were murdered. Many true devotees, true gursikhs

became shaheed fighting. Gursikhs were dishonored due to their religion, in their

own religious place; but how comes this happened? Why didnt the chaali mukte

prevent this from happening? Plus the Guru Granth Sahib ji has been read many

times in the Golden Temple, and im sure the Sukhmani Sahib Ji has been read many

times and many devotees prayed with a true heart. But then why were these devotees

massacred?!?! veero i don't mean to question WaheGuru or my Gurus. But i jus fail

to understand that how this had all happened and why the 40 mukte didn't prevent

this.


Veer ji, im sorry if i have said to much; i don't intend to questions Sikhi but i

just want to understand a few things more deeply. I hope you can help me.


i hope WaheGuru forgives me if i said anything out of line.

WaheGuru Ji ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji ki Fateh

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: hopeless (IP Logged)
Date: June 04, 2008 12:00PM

do the 40 mukte stop wahegurus hukam?

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: June 04, 2008 06:02PM

well the only thing that came to mind is the saying that Guru Gobind Singh stated that if the sikhs deviated from his instructions he would withdraw his support/protection/blessing (sorry if my paraphrasing is wrong, but you all know what i am refering to right?)

i mean who fortified the Harimandra in the first place? Gurus didnt build or intend it for that purpose. those people who died in the army's siege were trapped and massacred because they couldnt leave, because of those outer confines.

we say that there are 4 entrances because all our welcome yet someone went and built huge building and enclose what was once one with its surrounding area.

Even in Guru Hargobinds time, the Akal Takht was a outdoor platform and not a fortification (or so i read, is this incorrect?)

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: Bundha (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 03:16AM

just don't go there Bhaji, as you will become unstuck, accept it as the hukam of AkalPurkh.

We could say the same thing about Mussa Runghar who did greater beadbi of Harmindar sahib, or what about the chota and wudha Ghalughara, or what about the Sahibzaday or shaheedi of Guru Arjun Dev Ji? These were all accepted as the will of God. They say that the foundation of Sikh was built with the blood of the shaheeds, so these types of kurbania have to be made.

These are all acts under the hukam of AkalPurkh and with each trial and tribulation the Sikh quam becomes stronger.

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: ConfusedMunda (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 07:43AM

bundha veer ji, i understand what you are saying, and shaheedian are important in our religion, but such a huge amount of people were massacred in the Harmandir Sahib and the after math was tooo horrific. so many peoploe killed at one time, wha does this mean?? that its the beginning of Khalistan?? but even if it is veer ji wen will we achieve khalistan because in india itself i dont think there have been any people who are trying to achieve a khalistan or anythink, like Bhindranwale did

i have accepeted all this massacre 2 be the way of WaheGuru and the new beginning of something, but wen will all these shaheedis actually show result veer ji

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: Matheen (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 09:59AM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Confused Munda,
We pray for the chance to die for our dharm (Deh Shiva Bar Mohe...). Those people died for you and me - most of my friends and myself came into Sikhi ONLY because we were awakened by the shock that resulted from 1984.

The result of their kurbanee is that Sikhi is around today. Before the events of June 1984, many Mahapurkhs stated that Sikhi was in need of an operation to bring it back to health. That operation was what happened.

Before speaking about Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, it would be a good idea to listen to their speeches, which are easily available online, to get the facts about what their duty was.

Navjot Singh, if you know someone is going to attack you, wouldn't you prepare to defend youself?

Kindly forgive my mistakes,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: ConfusedMunda (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 10:28AM

matheen thank you, i think ur comment has answered my question :-) and i accidently said tha Bhindranwale wanted Khalistan b4, i no he want to free Sikhs from this slavery and be considered equal to every1; he also said tha he is not for or against Khalistan however the if the government were willin to give it he wudnt reject it..... veer ji i am a Sikh and proud to be one and i try display that in all ways possible and all my close ones i try convincing them to take more interest in Sikhi and our Gurus. however, i feel tha i want to do more, i want to do more for my brothers and sisters in punjab i want them 2 have their equal rights. What the brave Singhs started before 1984 i want to give that journey a results now.

plz help me in telling me ways in which i can help my people in india get their equal rights and be respected. i want people of all religions to accept that sikhi isnt jus a load of crap, it is actually a very powerful and right religion. i don't want my brothers in india to be referred as "long haired hindus"!!! Veer ji i am not racist as some ppl may think i may be.... but plz help me and advise me now i can give input by achieveing this for my religion

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: hopeless (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 12:18PM


 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: ConfusedMunda (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 12:46PM

this general brar lies!!! he said tha pilgrims were killed in cross fire when that is an absolute lie!!!! pilgrims were forced by the army 2 sit 2getha then their turbans were removed to tie up their hands and then they were shot at a point blank range!!! The army itself wouldnt let anyone out, because as soon as they saw movenment from inside they just started firing!!! its traitors like this who are holding Sikhs back! can any of my brothers or sisters tell me what people get out of betrayin their own religion, their own Gurus and their own people?!?!?!

[www.neverforget84.com]

go on this link 2 read an actual surviors story of what happened when Harmandir Sahib ji was attacked

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: ConfusedMunda (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 12:47PM

hopeless, my brother so do u believe that general brar was right for attacking the Golden Temple and he has justified all of his actions in that interview?

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: ConfusedMunda (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 12:53PM

[www.neverforget84.com] ..... go to this link, then click on Shaheeds Of Operation Bluestar & Khalistan Movement, and then click on June 1984: One Jujharoo's Account

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: Bhopinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 01:24PM

Navjooot

I think you have no sense of anything,well let me try and help you ,read neville maxwells book India's china war and remmember the ' which means India started the war .To this day Indians say otherwise,read how general Kaul ran also read col.Choudhary's book on that war in which he details the true character of Hindu army true to its history and heritage written by a Hindu himself.

NO danger of any seige read Lt. gen. Sinha's book .The weapons were nothing as he says compared to the Indian army ,well he says they were virtually unarmed.So much so he goes on to say they were defending their history of never letting any body go over them ,true to their history they fulfilled that,only in death will it be SO TRUE IT IS AND TRUE IT WILL BE ALWAYS




JO BOLE SO NIHAL SAT SRI AKAL

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: Matheen (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 02:17PM

hopeless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.hvk.org]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Hopeless Ji, that article is posted on a site that, in their own words, is "a resource center for the promotion of Hindutva"......

If genuinely interested in the topic, please read:
(1) "The Gallant Defender" by A.R. Darshi, a Hindu former Punjab magistrate. It can be downloaded for free - do a Google search.
(2) "Fighting for Faith and Nation", Cynthia Kappley Mahmood, University of Maine.
(3) "Reduced To Ashes: The Insurgency and Human Rights in Punjab" is the report of the Committee for Coordination on Disappearances in Punjab (CCDP), authored by Ram Narayan Kumar. YOU CAN download this free from: [www.ensaaf.org]

Note that all those are written by non-Sikhs. Let us know what you think,
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: hopeless (IP Logged)
Date: June 06, 2008 02:25AM

I put that link up out of disgust and for people to comment.............far as i am concerned the Indian government is a Nazi nation! and the rest of the world governments are sick as them for letting them get away with it.Today of all days I feel hurt that my fellow gursikh brothers and sisters think that i for one second is in doubt that sikhs suffered genocide at the hands of the Indian government.
the khalsa raj will happen because justice for the sikh kaum is in my heart felt prayers everyday...sooner or later gurji will bless us and the way each and everyone of us can protest about 1984.....is to become Khalsa and encourage those around us to do the same or else it means you don't care for all the sikhs that have been martyred in all our history.

 



Re: 1984 & the 40 mukte and the Gurus!!!
Posted by: ConfusedMunda (IP Logged)
Date: June 06, 2008 08:37AM

www.sikhgenocide.org

 





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