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Advice Please Bhagat Farid
Posted by: so confused (IP Logged)
Date: September 17, 2007 07:09AM

Sadh Sangaat,

Whaeguru Ji Khalsa Wahegurji Ki Futeh.

I have been logging on to tapoban.org/forum for over a year found topics inspirational and as a consequence have set on the path of the Guru. (with Guru's Kirpa)

While on this path im for one facing challenges everyday one such challenge is coming from my family who i consider Panjabi and not Sikh. My Dad reads many books about Sikh way of life, quotes, and literature he said that he has one question that nobody is able to answer. I am hoping the sangaat can help me answer the following question.

Baba Farid

Fareed, do not turn around and strike those who strike you with their fists.
(1378-5, slok, syK PrId)
Kiss their feet, and return to your own home. ||7||

Mahraja Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji

"When all other means have failed, It is but lawful to take to the sword."

My father question these two quotes contradict and is an inconsistency. My argument is that we have ordained the status of saint soldiers and this is a classic example how we should lead our lives. I am not sure about the meaning behind Baba Farid except you should have faith in Mahraja Shiri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and only Waheguru can resolve your affairs. However with Mahraja Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji I understand of protecting yourself, weak and the innocent.

Please can you help understand the quote of Baba Farid and secondly how is the different views so opposite, is this an example of how diverse we should be as soldier saints?

Whaeguru Ji Khalsa Wahegurji Ki Futeh.

Ajitpal Singh

So far i have only one example of this which i found on another forum.

The Incident At Ambala Railway Station

Once I was going to meet the loved ones Sri Babu Mal Singh and Piara Singh Ji, who were in the Army at Ambala Cautt, along with the Jatha, including Bhai Sarwan Singh. They were being transferred to a remote place and we wanted to meet them before their departure at the cantonment. At the railway station all were self-occupied and Bhai Sarwan Singh got lost in his deep meditation while standing. It so happened, that he was standing outside a ticket issuing window, which was then closed and he stood alone. However, a train arrived and the tickets were to be issued to the passengers from that window. We were all set to march to the cantonment and unaware of this. There was a rush of passengers to buy tickets at the window blocked by Bhai Sarwan Singh. Shortly a police constable on duty arrived at the scene, but Bhai Sahib was unconcerned with the happenings and completely lost in himself. The policeman shook him a few times, but without an affect. In anger, he gave a full slap at the face of Bhai Sarwan Singh, and Bhai Sahib opened his eyes and the constable shouted, Dont you know the tickets are issued here. You have been repeatedly told to move away from this place, where standing is not allowed. Now this slap serves you right, as you would not listen otherwise. Just watch this now:

Bhai Sarwan Singh was not at all disturbed dut to the slap, instead he fell flat on the feet of the constable and apologised for his lapse. But as soon as Bhai Sahib touched his feet, the constable feel flat on his back and started wailing loudly, O people! Help!! Please get me a pardon from this Sikh. Hearing this plea for help many people gathered there. Writhing painfully on ground was the constable shouting his pleas. When he was asked, What was his problem? He replied, This Sikh is going to kill me. He was again asked what had hit him. The constable said, He has not hit me, he has finished me. He has drawn all my power by falling on my feet. I dont know what miracle he has performed. My salvation is only in his pardoning me. The constable explained how, unaware of Bhai Sahibs meditational state, he had slapped the Sikh from blocking the window and the Sikh instead of remonstrating, had fallen on his feet to apologize for the mistake. On hearing this, one Christian remarked, This is amazing. Our Lord Jesus has taught if a Christian is slapped, he should offer the other cheek to appease the angered person, yet this Sikh has fallen to the feet of the angered. What can be more amazing? I addressed this person by telling him of the Gurbani teaching,

Farida! React not in anger to give a blow for blow,
but instead kiss the feet of the aggressor before going home.

A Hindu commented contemptuously, that This Sikh must have held the feet to escape further punishment. He should have taken a revenge on the constable, but being a weakling he submitted cowardly. Not to prolong the issue, we told him that he was entitled to his views. All of us including Bhai Sarwan Singh started marching towards the cantonment. It so happened that the Hindu Mahasha was also to go to the Sadar Bazaar in cantonment and followed us. Halfway on our journey, it was time for Rehras Pathh. We washed ourselves at the nearby well and after Rehras we proceeded onward. There was cluster of trees and I felt the urge for natural call. Bhai Sarwan Singh and myself proceeded towards the trees, while he went far into the trees, I remained nearby. I had just finished washing myself, when I heard the cries of help of a woman. Bhai Sahib was closer to the sport of crying. He reached there immediately alone. He saw four drunken British policemen trying to gang-rape a poor girl, who had come to collect firewood. Instinctively Bhai Sarwan Singh snatched away their lances and gave all the four such a thrashing, that they were all lying flat. He tied all of them and put them back in the tonga in which they had arrived. Meanwhile I also reached there. Seeing this, I called all our friends. The Hindu Mahasha was also with them and saw what had happened. He was explained, that it was the feat of just one brave Sikh. This Sikh had earlier set the example of extreme tolerance when slapped by a policeman, and a Christian was full of praise for him. But now when it was a rescue mission, he has displayed the bravery of laying flat four burly British policemen single handily. Hearing this, the Mahasha cried uncontrollably saying, Khalsa Ji! Pardon me. I never knew the two distinct aspects of a Sikh personality of extreme tolerance and unparalled bravery, but now I know that Singhs of Guru Gobind Singh are unique, endured with all virtues." Meanwhile the tied up Britishers were crying with pleas of forgiveness and with a promise never to repeat such an act. They wanted to know their fate after this tying. We replied, You will be taken to your officers for due punishment. They said, they have already received enough bodily punishment. Our bodies are swollen and there are bruises due to the injuries. What more punishment can be given? Charge us five of Rs 50/- and forgive us. We told them to apologize to the poor girl and give the whole amount to her, with the promise never to repeat such a dastardly act. Finally we started our onward march, reciting Rehras on the way. This example of Bhai Sarwan Singh is just as a sample of the instincts of Divine Virtues in all the practicing Sikhs, devoted to Nam-meditation. These are instilled them in full measure to execute the Divine Will.


Re: Advice Please Bhagat Farid
Posted by: Sukhdev Singh (IP Logged)
Date: September 17, 2007 10:13AM


From my limited knowledge I don't think there is a contradiction between the two.
Baghat Fareed Jee is reffering to us as an individual, when someone swears or even tries to attack us we should refrain from responding in the same manner. In most caeses the biggest injury is not physical but hurt to your pride/ego. This element of houme has to eradicated to be a true baghat/sant because otherwise you will respond with anger. There should be no room for anger within Khalsa.
The quote you gave for Guru Gobind Singh jee refers to the parupkar aspect of the Khalsa, this would be for the betterment of society/Panth to fight evil and injustice as a LAST resort. There is no room for anger and hate in this battle there is no real enemy as this all in Akal Puraks play. The Naam of the Khalsa through Sarbloh will liberate all who are touched.

Bhul Chucka Dee Maaf



Re: Advice Please Bhagat Farid
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: September 17, 2007 04:10PM

I discussed this with a Gursikh and this is what we came up with:

1) Siri Dasmesh jee has written that when all means to establish peace are extinguished, then taking up sword is justified. Baba Farid jee's hukam is contained in Siri Dasmesh jee's hukam of "exhausting all other means". So if you really look at it, these two hukams don't counter each other.

2) Second way of looking at this is to look at Baba Farid jee's hukam as one being at personal level and Siri Dasmesh jee's hukam a quomi hukam. In other words, at individual level, it is just to follow Baba Farid jee's hukam and kissing the aggressors feet but when it comes to attack on your dhee-bhain, your quom, your Gurdwaras, your Dharam, then in due process (extinguishing all other means), taking up sword is justified.

Kulbir Singh


Re: Advice Please Bhagat Farid
Posted by: ramsar (IP Logged)
Date: September 19, 2007 02:23PM

both can be taken metaphorically or literally, depending on the situation.

for fareed ji's, i believe that it can be taken at many levels, as mentioned, not just physically.


Re: Advice Please Bhagat Farid
Posted by: admin (IP Logged)
Date: June 02, 2010 08:19AM



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