ਚੁਕਾਰਅਜ਼ਹਮਹਹੀਲਤੇਦਰਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ॥ਹਲਾਲਅਸਤਬੁਰਦਨਬਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰਦਸਤ॥੨੨॥ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥)

Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai


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Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: May 16, 2008 03:14AM

[www.rajacademy.com]

25th May 2008 at Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Park Avenue, Southall.

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: Jarnail Singh "Arshi" Gyani (IP Logged)
Date: May 26, 2008 05:59AM

this is fantastic work by Rajacademy...thanks

jrnYl isMG igAwnI "ArSI"





 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: FaujaSingh (IP Logged)
Date: June 09, 2008 06:22AM

ChardiKala to see someone standing for gurmat unfortunet they slandered Panthic Gursikhs of past including Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh and Gyani Amolak Singh Ji.

*****admin cut for personal attack*********



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2008 10:46AM by admin.

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 09, 2008 07:29AM

"ChardiKala to see someone standing for gurmat unfortunet they slandered Panthic Gursikhs of past including Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh and Gyani Amolak Singh Ji."

Admin, nice to see that you do your job, be it with one eye and one ear missing. How could you leave the rest of the message when it is clearly doing what you have edited the rest of the message for?

Fauja Singh, quit your nindak nature, it is bad for your spiritual progression - try listening to what your Guru says:

- Kisae di ninda, chugali, atae eirkha nahi karni

- Dushman naal saam, daam, bhaed, aadiak, upaa vartnae

- Chugali kar kisae da kam nahi vigaarnaa

Take your pick as to which is suitable for you.

When asked, Professor has said that the above mentioned Gursikh did not do kirtan in hukmi raag. This does not constitute slandering. He has not questioned their avasthaa, jeevan or intent, his own parents are rehitvaan Gursikh and part of the old school Bhai Randhir Singh Ji jathaa.

When you have influenced thousands of childrens lives around the globe - and helped them to take pride in and singing Sat-Guru's bani using Sat-Guru's gifts, and putting their faith and head at only Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's charan, then gladly share your opinion - and base it on fact, not gossip.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2008 10:46AM by admin.

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: FaujaSingh (IP Logged)
Date: June 09, 2008 11:22AM

Speaking the truth is not nindya. Surinder Sio has said in a presentation that Bhai Sahib was single cause of downfall of Gurmat Sangeet. Gursikhs in AKJUK can also verify this.

The other bit wasn't nindya just posting points of truth regarding maya but up to admin.

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: June 09, 2008 11:47AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Khalsa jio,

Quote "When asked, Professor has said that the above mentioned Gursikh did not do kirtan in hukmi raag."

ਸਾਨੂੰ ਇਥੇ ਸਿਆਣਿਆ ਦੀ ਕਹਾਵਤ ਖੂਬ ਢੁਕਦੀ ਨਜ਼ਰ ਆਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ "ਛੱਜ ਬੋਲੇ ਤਾਂ ਬੋਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਛਾਣਨੀ ਕੀ ਬੋਲੇ".

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 10, 2008 08:25AM

-------
Speaking the truth is not nindya. Surinder Sio has said in a presentation that Bhai Sahib was single cause of downfall of Gurmat Sangeet. Gursikhs in AKJUK can also verify this.
---------

It is unfortunate for Surinder Singh to make such comments like blaming Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee for downfall of Gurmat Sangeet. If he wants to promote kirtan in pakke raag, that's a good thing but he does not need to condemn jewels like Bhai Sahib in the process.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 10, 2008 01:49PM

Whats more unfortunate is that the same people who can't be bothered to learn kirtan as Guru Maharaj has ordained it, justify singing it (and consistantly attacking those who who try and help) in a way that even Bhai Randhir Singh Ji condemned i.e. shouting gurmantar in the middle of a shabad or mixing pangatis from different shabds - the SDO generation AKJ.

Bhai Sahib did not condone this style of kirtan.

As I said, no one questioned Bhai Sahibs avaasta.

The problem here is attachment - which leads to deafness and blindness, if anyone mentions their role models/leaders name and it is anything but praise, all hell breaks loose.

It is a fact that during the turn of the century, partially due to British intervention/influence, much of Khalsa culture and knowledge was weakened if not lost -this includes all sorts of traditions i.e. gurmat sangeet, shastar vidya, shaastra gyaan etc.

The simple folk style of kirtan was used by Sants to combat (as a counter measure) Christian missioneries who were travelling village to village with vaaja and singing folk style hymns to capture the simple folks minds. This style became popular, and was later adopted by the likes of Bhai Randhir Singh Ji and other Gurmukh of his generation. We forget that there was much agitation, freedom and rights struggles, vidya was weak, there was not time/resource to learn or preserve the original kirtan, plus all effort was going towards establishing a unified maryada and Guru Granth Sahib.

The decline of gurmat sangeet was due to many reasons, but amongst them, was the fact that the great Sants of the early 1900's had a huge influence on the following generations, and Bhai Sahib is included amongst them.

This is not an attack on anyone, just an historical observation that Professor has made, I fail to see how it is offensive? And it was not made about Bhai Sahib alone, but the general kirtan culture being practiced in the early 1900's by many Mahapurkh for reasons mentioned above and many other reasons.

People need to se the context of a discussion/comment before turning it into gossip and doing nidiya. Whats worse is that respected Gursikh believe these gossip mongers.

If people are in doubt is not better to speak to the accused himself rather than turn Tapoban forum into the Judge and Jury?

I haven't heard Bhai Sahibs kirtan (never recorded as far as I know), but accounts talk of how much ras and pyaar there was in it, even if it was it simple folk reetan. No one denies that. But the fact remains, that generations of Sikhs following as many Mahapurkh have followed what those Mahapukh did rather than what Guru ordained. This is understandable in the hard times of pre-independance India, but what is the excuse today?

Where much effort is made today to preserve and promote laaridaar saroop, tat-gurmat maryada etc, we should also be appyling the same effort to preserve the knowledge and practice of our Guru's hukmi kirtan and their saaz.

This involves education and learning. IMHO, no jathaa/samprada in the panth represents nor has preserved Guru Ji's maryada/rvaaj in there complete form.

Acknowledging this fact will not only enable different factions to respect each other, bt also to learn from each other, that which their faction did not have knowledge of. It would help unite the panth and get out this inner-tribal mentality/pride, and in some cases personality worship.

Where there is disagreement - we should follow the lead of Guru (which we should be doing in any case) and not that of our factions.

Anyway, I am sure this post is going to bring much excitement and increase testosterone levels, so I digress.

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: FaujaSingh (IP Logged)
Date: June 11, 2008 12:09AM

All steam, no substance.

a) prof charges vast amounts for people to learn kirtan.
b) Did he or did he not in a presentation on downfall of Gurmat Sangeet put up a picture of Bhai Sahib Randhi Singh and jatha and then say, "this person was the soul purpose of downfall of kirtan"
c) Surinder has also done meta tek to NaamDhari Jagjit Sio
d) Surinder Sio also has naamdharhi in his jatha.

Please answer these first.

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: Matheen (IP Logged)
Date: June 11, 2008 05:40AM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Fauja Singh Ji, perhaps dass can answer some of your questions;

a)He offered to teach me for free, however, if you wish to enrol in the formal university level classes, you pay a fee, as you do with any other school.

b)don't know.

c) did you see him do this, or were you told by a friend who was told by another friend.....

d) He doesn't have a 'jatha' but a school. Some of the teachers and students may be Naamdhari but there's nothing wrong with that. The Naamdhari teachers are only there because the rest of the Panth has forgotten Guru Ji's style of Kirtan and the students are made welcome as would be Muslims, Christians etc.

Don't forget that he has to make a living and runs a school, not a Gurudwara. We are ok to pay fees for learning worldly giaan but are so stingy that we expect Guru Ji's priceless vidiya for free.

If someone has giaan to give, don't look too much at the personality - take the giaan and put it to good use. When you were at school, did you care about the race or religion of your teachers? Think of this as the same thing, it is not for us to judge someone who is trying to spread Guru Ji's system of doing Kirtan.

 



Re: Celebration of Guru Ramdas Ji's life - through release of Partaal
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 11, 2008 06:11AM

Fauja Singh, you and your cronies are doing a great job of blessing Professor, because as you continue your lies and gossip based rants, his seva increases and plans to educate Sikh youth who have lost their heritage matrialise.

I am not going to answer any other questions aside from the ones posted, and am only doing this to show the lies generated from second hand information that is regularly spread on this forum.

There is a pattern here of slandering anyone that does not have AKJ ideals/beliefs. All may not participate, but the respected sevadaar here and the admin are just as guilty as the nindaks for allowing unsubstanitated lies to be spread on this apparently tat gurmat forum. Great representation of Khalsa ideals.

a) prof charges vast amounts for people to learn kirtan.

Rubbish. In fact he is the only person in the UK you can learn gurmat sangeet, kirtan/raag history/evolution, raag mechanics/aesthetics, tanti saaz and much more - all under state funded education. In affect - for free. The only fees charged are done so for admin purposes by the Universtiy/school (as is done for any state course) etc - if you are from low income household, then these fees are excempt as per UK regs also). If anyone wants to gain a LSM qualification - then they pay for the course as per the school who runs it. Outside of this there are classes held 7 days a week where youth can turn up just for practice if they so wish. They are taught at their own pace adn given opportunity to do kirtan seva every month.

Furthermore, the albums released are not for profit. The income frmo them goes to paying for the production, media, advertising, distribution etc cost and financing future projects.

b) Did he or did he not in a presentation on downfall of Gurmat Sangeet put up a picture of Bhai Sahib Randhi Singh and jatha and then say, "this person was the soul purpose of downfall of kirtan"

I have already clarified this above - you are dramatising big time, instead of ruining someones good work and spreading rumours based on what you have 'heard' from biased parties, why not be a man and ask/question him yourself, then share your answer with your friends? Bhai Randhir singh Ji along with other Mahapurkh of his era" (something you keep forgetting to add), certainly influenced (INDIRECTLY) a large faction of the panth into doing kirtan which was not hukmi raag, thats a factual observation, and does not touch upon Bhai Sahibs jeevan in any way. If you want more details contact Prof and ask to do another presentation where you can be present.

c) Surinder has also done meta tek to Naamdhari Jagjit Sio

Professor is probably one of the greatest advocates I have seen today of putting complete faith and submission in and to Ad Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji only - Professor does not follow any Sants, Babai, let alone Guru's of other Sects. Why would he mattha tek to Baba Jagit Singh? Did you see this with your own eyes, has he said he did, or did your cronies see this whilst visiting Bhaini Sahib? Yes he has certainly met with and had discussions about Gurmat Sangeet/tanti saaz with Baba Jagjit Singh due to mutual interest, resources and learning, but that is it.

d) Surinder Sio also has naamdharhi in his jatha.

Again Rubbish. Professors jathaa are his Gursikh senior students. Yes some world class Namdhari musicians do teach 'Tanti Saaz' on the course - whats your problem with that. It's learning saaz. When you go to school/Uni whatever, do you check that your teacher is a Tat Khalsa? There is difference between learning an instrument and how to sing, and learning Gurbani - the Namdhari teachers teach instruments and singing.

Professor teaches Sikh history, shabd to be sung etc in terms of Gurmat Sangeet - based on his research and that of famous learned Gursikh scholars.

Like I said, instead of acting like gossiping housewives, not just in this case, but other cases where people are accused also, find out the facts first and provide evidence (not rumours from kids). Then speak to the accused directly if you are really interested in finding out the truth or even addressing a problem.

 





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