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why do we cry- is this maya??
Posted by: javab_deyo (IP Logged)
Date: May 11, 2008 09:10PM

i was wondering why we cry and what causes us to do so...........in my case specifically i am like a supposedly tough guy with a "bring em on" attitude but if anybody hurts me a little bit or point out some "flaws" in my behaviour i start crying like a baby...........and i often wonder if this is maya too and how can i stop myself from crying at every little instance and remain strong........

i know it may not be a big issue but i dont wanna be a an old baba who cries even in front of his kids........i hope u understand what i am saying??

thanks sangat ji


Re: why do we cry- is this maya??
Posted by: javab_deyo (IP Logged)
Date: May 13, 2008 11:25PM

bump (javab deyo)


the only truly worthwhile laughing, crying and silence
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: May 14, 2008 07:20AM

ਰੰਗਿਹਸਹਿਰੰਗਿਰੋਵਹਿਚੁਪਭੀਕਰਿਜਾਹਿ ॥
rang hasehi rang rovehi chup bhee kar jaahi |
In the Lord's Love, they laugh, and in the Lord's Love, they weep, and also keep silent.

ਪਰਵਾਹਨਾਹੀਕਿਸੈਕੇਰੀਬਾਝੁਸਚੇਨਾਹ ॥
paravaah naahee kisai kaeree baajh sachae naah |
They do not care for anything else, except their True Husband Lord.

ਦਰਿਵਾਟਉਪਰਿਖਰਚੁਮੰਗਾਜਬੈਦੇਇਤਖਾਹਿ ॥
dhar vaatt oupar kharach mangaa jabai dhaee th khaahi |
Sitting, waiting at the Lord's Door, they beg for food, and when He gives to them, they eat.

(Ang 473)


Re: why do we cry- is this maya??
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: May 14, 2008 01:50PM

The above shabd is not relevant here. Javab Deyo is not crying out of Gods love.

The examples you give point to the root cause being haumai. You are hurt when your perception of 'self' is seemingly attacked.

You need to understand haumai - before you can understand the cure.

The below article should help you:

HUMAI (Ego) (Taran Singh).

The term haumai is a compound of two pronouns hau and mai each meaning ‘I’, and thus, haumai means ‘I, I’. The ancient Indian term, for haumai has been aham-kara—‘I-maker’ or ‘I-doer’. In the Chhandogya Upanisad, it (sham-kara) is equated with atman or soul, conceived as the immanent Divinity. But, its most popular sense, later, was the one attached to it in the Sankhya philosophy viz. it is a mental organ or function, evolved from matter, and mediating between the material and the spiritual. In Buddhism, it has two slightly varying meanings viz. ‘mind involved in I-making-mine-making conceit’ and ‘the bias of I-making-mine-making from the aham-kara that all actions spring. According to the Pali Pitakas, springs of action are six, three being roots of good, three of bad actions or three of moral and three of immoral. The three roots of bad actions are greed (lobha), hate (dosa) and want of intelligence (moha); the other three are their opposites—detachment, love and intelligence. Modern Mahayanists hold that in the Bodhisattva theory, altruism as opposed to egoism takes a more prominent position, and the goal of nirvana is not one of personal salvation but of transferred merit, saintly aspiration being for the salvation of all beings.

In English, the word nearest to haumai is ego which, metaphysically, from the Latin root, means ‘a conscious thinking subject’ as opposed to ‘non-ego’ or object—thus, it stands for the ‘self’, soul and spirit. The term ‘egoism’, ethically, stands for the theory which holds the self-interest to be the foundation of morality, and the egoist, thus, is systematically selfish and self-opinionated. An egocentric is, as we call it, self-centred. An egoist can think of nothing else, but of ‘I’ and ‘me’, and is invariably ‘talking about himself’, in ‘self-conceit’ and ‘selfishness’. Duality too has been recognized in the ego, and thus, ego is subject-consciousness and object consciousness, or, of ‘I’ and ‘Me’—it is not dualism of essentially different substances, but it is of such a nature as to form together one individual conscious being. Again, a distinction has been drawn between Theoretical
egoism or the Subjective Idealism which maintains that one’s own individual ego is the only being that a man can logically assert to exist; and the Practical egoism which has three forms—logical, aesthetic and moral, according to Kant. A logical egoist considers it unnecessary to bring his own judgement to the test of another’s understanding; the aesthetic egoist is fully satisfied with his own tastes; and the moral egoist makes himself the end of all his activities—nothing is valuable unless it benefits him. In ethics, egoism maintains that the standard of conduct for the individual is his own good on the whole. So, the inclinations and purposes of an egoist are immediately and exclusively directed towards himself; he, in his consciousness, thinks about himself and his own immediate interests only, is self-centred and self-opinionated.

Egoism is based on an atomistic conception of society viz. every social whole is composed of individuals, the nature of each one of whom is to preserve his own life, to seek his own good, to satisfy his own desires; and good and evil are relative to the individual. But is is a false conception, as no man is self-contained. An individual’s interests are not different from the interests of the society or of all members of the community. Every individual is a member of an organic whole and the complete good is the good of the whole of which he is a member. Higher men realize their true good by denying what appears to be their private good, and they so far identify themselves with their state or church that they are content to die so that the institution may live. Self-interest, self-conceit, self-seeking and self-reference—all become irrelevant to them.

Using the term haumai, viz. I-ness and My-ness, Guru Nanak has given his view of haumai most comprehensively in sloka VII.I of the Asa-di-var (ode in the Asa Measure). At the same place, in another sloka, his first successor, Guru Angad, has also tried to interpret the view of Guru Nanak on the subject. Guru Nanak’s sloka, referred to in the above, reads, in English translation, as this:
In ego man comes, in ego he goes,
In ego he is born, in ego he dies.
In ego he gives in ego he receives,
In ego he earns, in ego he loses.
In ego he is true or false,
In ego he has considerations of sin and virtue.
In ego he descends to hell or rises to heaven,
In ego he laughs, in ego he weeps.
In ego he begrimes, in ego he washes himself,
In ego he is misled into the considerations of castes and kinds
In ego he is foolish, in ego he is wise,
And loses. all sense of salvation and liberation.
In ego he is absorbed in Maya (illusion),
In ego he is overtaken by delusion.
In ego are men born as creatures
Man can see the Gate, if he understands his ego,
Without realization, all talk of ego that entangles a man.
Nanak, under the Supreme Will our record is made,
As one sees the one, we perceive the other. (Asa-di-var VII.I)
In the light of the above sloka, Guru Nanak’s view of haumai can be constructed as this:

1. Humai is a creation of the Supreme Being as it comes into existence under His Will. He is the master of the play of life. The whole play of life is caused by the presence of ego in man which gives rise to the conflict between the higher and lower selves.
2. Haumai is a condition of the mind. Mind itself is born of the five elements which are the objects of the five senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch. That is, Haumai is material and not spiritual in its basic nature.
3. Haumai (I-ness, My-ness) is so powerful an instinct that it influences each and every activity of man (or animal) throughout the course of his existence which may run into myriads of births and lives. Ego is the basis of his transmigration from life to life, serves as the initial force or motive in all his actions, directs every choice of man—true or false, good or evil, painful or pleasurable.
4. Haumai is that condition of mind which keeps man ignorant of the true reality, the true purpose of his life, and thus keeps him away from salvation and union with God.
5. Guru Angad has described haumai as a deep-rooted disease. So far as it remains as the condition of the mind, it (mind) cannot conduct itself in a healthy way. But, again, Guru Angad assures that the word of the Guru is the medicine which can cure the disease of ego.
6. An egoist everywhere sees the projection of his own mind only.
7. One hears the word of the Guru when the Supreme Being Himself blesses him with His grace. The will of the Supreme binds a man to transmigration while His grace liberates him from that bondage of the cycle of births and deaths. Ego binds a man, grace liberates.
8. Ego is the basis of individuality which at once separates one from the totality of life or cosmic and social life. This separation gives the idea of preservation of the self which leads to struggle for existence.
9. The idea of struggle for existence makes the egoist self-seeking, conceited, self-assertive, selfish and proud. As he secures his interests and himself, he develops a complex of superiority. He begins to feel proud of his caste, birth, country, creed, colour, sex, prowess, learning, culture, conduct, rituals, etc. Thus, he begins to feel that he is born to rule while others are there to serve his will and carry out his order. They are just the means to preserve and watch his interests.
10. Guru Nanak has no where given a hint that haumai can be purified and trained to serve nobler purposes or to work for the salvation of man. According to him ‘ego’ constitutes the wall of separation between God and man. So, this has to be completely removed; it is to be burnt, destroyed and eliminated altogether.
11. However, mind or consciousness is a great power. If mind becomes pure, it realizes God. Mind is not merely ego; it has the powers of cognition, perception, understanding, reasoning and right discrimination. These functions of mind in Indian terminology, have been called ahamkar, mana, chit, budhi, bibek, etc. But mind is purified only when the ego is banished completely. Mind must be rid of ego. Guru Granth describes ego as disease, falsehood, wall, dross, dirt, poison, etc. Mind, to be healthy, must get rid of the disease, falsehood, separation, dross, dirt and poison. When ego is banished nobler and higher faculties of mind come into play.
12. In the total scheme of God, ego makes the play of the world possible by creating the conflict between spirit and matter or good or evil. Ego is not what is called the free will as opposed to determinism. Man has no free will. His entire course is determined by the will of God. God Himself puts him on the path of evil or good, so called, for in fact the duality of evil and good also does not exist.
The Guru Granth calls the egoist as manmukh or sakat. He is mind-oriented and follows the irrational carnal urges of lust, anger, avarice, attachment and pride. He is thoroughly a materialist and is bound to the material joys. He is always double minded, vacillating between God and Mammon. When man shakes off ego, he merges his self with the cosmic self. Such a man considers himself as a drop in the ocean of life and understands that his good or interest is common with the good of the other members of the human society or family. Such a man identifies himself with the society. He has no individual interests. An egoist does everything with desire for reward or fruit for himself while a non-egoist is niskani (desireless) in all his actions.
In the Sidhgoshti (A Dialogue with the Siddhas), Guru Nanak (vide stanze-68) says that an egoist creates a world of his own life. The spider who weaves a web out of his ownself and is entangled in it and is thus killed ultimately by his own false creation. An egoist lives in an imaginary world of his own wherein he himself matters the most and remains the centre of the entire universe or a small circle of his relatives is all that matters. In selfishness, he thinks of his own salvation only and resorts to the so-called religious acts of supposed merit such as dips at the so-called holy places, alms-deeds, austeritier, meditation, samadhis (concentrations), recitations, mortification, etc. (Asa-di-var, VIII-2, also ibid, IX, I, IV.2). So-called men of religious piety who sin against others by discriminating against them on grounds of caste, creed, birth, position, sex, learning, and claim superiority for themselves for observing Shradh or sutak or purity of the cooking-squares are indeed egoists. They do not meditate on the Name and live in a fool’s paradise that these rituals and religious practices would save them. Similarly, men of power, wealth, position, beauty and bravery are proud, and in their egoism, care not a fig for the feelings of others, behave like tyrants, do high-handedness; but they also live in a world of their own fabrication as they have to reap the fruit of what they had sown. Being forgetful of the Name, all these men of ego suffer terribly.
In ego, a world springs up, O man,
Forgetting the Name, this world suffers.
A Gurmukh thinks of knowledge and truth, and burns ego by the word of the Guru.
He is pure in mind, thought and word,
he merges with the True One. (Sidhgoshti, 68)
A Gurmukh is the antithesis of an egoist. He mediates on the Name and so purifies his mind that all the evil and selfish tendencies leave him. This is banishing of the ego. There is no other remedy for the otherwise incurable disease of ego. Mediation on the Name alone can banish ego and make one the servant of God. The disciple of the Name inculcates in the devotee the virtues of temperance, honest, non-attachment, moderation, gratitude and love of the Lord. These are the qualities of a servant of God too. This plane of character guarantees the state of bliss and continuous pleasure to a Gurmukh.
Guru Nanak is more concerned with practical life than theorising. In bani, he has placed haumai in opposition to Hukam (Supreme Will), Seva (service), Gyan (discriminating knowledge), Sehj (poise, middle-path), Nam (meditation, devotion) and Nirlaip (non-attachment).

(1) In the Japu (pauri II), with which the Guru Granth opens, he has placed haumai in opposition to the Supreme Will or human, saying that one can be a man of realization and truthfulness only if he conducts himself in accordance with the Supreme Will. He has drawn some sort of distinction between order and will, as it is the will which creates order. God is absolutely free to ordain an order. His will creates the order which works in the cosmic evolution and course. By His will: all forms come into being, they develop life, grow exalted, become good or evil, receive pain or pleasure, win Grace and get liberation or are doomed forever in transmigration, etc.; but an egoist is led to believe, erroneously, that he can transgress the will or order and by his efforts or actions develop, get exalted, become good, get pleasure, and win liberation. By such thinking, he denies, not only the Supremacy of the Divine Will, but the absoluteness of the Supreme Being itself. The Guru asserts that ‘all are subject to the Supreme Will, none outside its pale’, but the egoist asserts that he is beyond the pale of the Supreme Will and thus he feels not the need of being devoted to that and meditating on the Name. The Guru asserts that a cosmic order exists, the egoist does not recognize this and feels that he can defy any order or rule. He does not care for the rules which make a man really exalted or otherwise, great or otherwise, and bring suffering or pleasure. He is selfish, self-willed, self-seeking and sins against the common interests of society or community. He defies the social laws. The egoist does not understand the supremacy of the will though it is there. He suffers for his ignorance as he constantly sins against humanity. He is not a responsible being and does not contribute to the total good of mankind by following higher and nobler tendencies which too are present in his mind. He is narrow in outlook. We must attune our will to the Supreme-will, our self to the higher self, and choose the higher course of good which may result in the good of all.

(2) As already referred to, Guru Nanak has placed haumai in opposition to seva or service of God which also means service of mankind. The man who wants to serve God must attune his ego to the Supreme-will. For this, he need develop a certain pattern of life. In opposition to this sloka on ego, the Guru has given the character of a servant of God as under:
The service of God is done by the men of temperate lives who meditate on Him as the truest of the true,
They refrain from treading the path of evil, and doing good, practise honesty.
They have broken the bonds of worldliness, and eat and drink moderately.
“Thou art lavish in They mercies, of which Thou givest daily ever-increasingly”—
thus glorifying they obtain the glorious Lord. (Asa-di-var, VII)
The conflict between ego and will-to-serve is removed when man, through the grace of Guru and God, meditates on the Name. By meditation and devotion, his will gets attuned to the will of the Supreme. Meditation on the Name gives him a set character which is temperate, refrains from the path of evil, practises honesty, is unattached to the world, eats and drinks moderately and thus obtains the Lord. A man of meditation believes that God is the giver of every gift and He gives through His mercy and gives ever-increasingly, while an egoist believes just the other way. He lives for himself only, lives intemperately, eats and drinks immoderately, and earns by hook or by crook, not caring the least for honesty. An egoist is bound or attached to the world; he is attached to his own interests; he cares for the need of his family only and with that his circle ends. A servant of God looks after the needs of the humanity, the society and the community. He breaks the bonds of the body and the family or narrow considerations. Mankind is his family.

(3) Ego and right knowledge are always in opposition. In a hymn (No.33) of Sri rag, Guru Nanak emphasizes that a man of service who alone is honoured in the court of the Lord, is a man of right discrimination; he is a man of enlightenment which comes through living according to the teachings of the holy books, under the fear of the Lord and by knowing the truth. This man goes beyond the attractions and charms of Maya and is not deceived by it, while a greedy man, an egoist, always vacillates. The lamp of the mind, the Guru says, is lighted this way:
If we practise the teachings of the holy books, If we put the wick of the Lord’s fear in the lamp of the mind,
If we give it the fire of truth:—
This, then, is the oil, and this is how the lamp is lighted.
If the inside is lit like this,
then the Lord is obtained.
A man who is impressed by the word of the Guru, adopts such a way of life. He surrenders himself completely to the will of the Lord. He fears the Lord. An egoist does not care for the word of the Guru, nor for truth, nor for the Supreme-will. He believes that his own intellect is supreme and he can make no error. A man of pure intellect will serve mankind, not an egoist.

(4) Ego and bhakti (nam-bhakti) do not go together. Guru Amardas (Vadhans, Pada-ix) has emphatically stated that haumai (ego) and nam (meditation on the Name) are in direct conflict, the two can never dwell in the same mind. Guru Nanak (Asa, Ashtpadi-II), portraying the life of a man of meditation, says that externally he also appears to be a man of ego as he lives in the world and earns and spends like all men, but he then clarifies, he is unattached in his mind.
Outwardly he is an egoist,
He appears to behave and eat like that;
But he is liberated inwardly,
he is never attached.
A bhakta lives in the world, earns and spends, rears up family, brings up his children. But still he shares his earnings with others. He lives temperately and moderately. He can save to spend in the service of man. A servant of God can never be proud and egotistical. Meditation on the Nam gives non-attachment.
Haumai is, in fact, a denial of God, the Supreme Reality; it is the denial of the existence of a cosmic order, it is the denial of the oneness of the human society; it is denial of the path of love, knowledge, service and devotion’ it is living in an imaginary world of own fancy; it is living in constant conflict with all else in the creation. But it is God’s own creation to serve as an instrument of the play of life which He enjoys. God also sends the Guru to free men of the grip of haumai so that they may be reclaimed to God. The Guru is sent to mankind as God’s grace to it. He banishes haumai root and branch and unites man with God again.


Re: why do we cry- is this maya??
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: May 15, 2008 06:32AM


veer harcharan singh jee,

although he is obviously crying over a haumai-related issue, my point in quoting that was to help this veer to understand that crying over anything aside from prem for vaheguroo is useless crying...it is ultimately crying in ego...

when we feel :¬( we should remember vaheguroo
when we fell :¬) we should remember vaheguroo
when we feel :¬| we should remember vaheguroo
eventually all we will feel is vaheguroo....

if veer jee does this, then his dislike regarding criticism will disappear. whether someone praises him or slanders him, it will seem the same. nindya and ustat become friends of the gursikh - althopugh the gursikh doesn't actively go out looking for either, when they come to the gursikh, they help him/her take-on board many spiritual lessons.

at a more advanced stage, that person who smiles, cries and remains silent, all the time rememebering naam, it is as though they are having a constant conversation with their satguroo jee...be it during abhiyaas, nitnaym, keertan, langar, every-day life etc. they become very steady in many ways and enjoy this conversation immensely.


ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ


Re: why do we cry- is this maya??
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: May 16, 2008 08:29AM

According to Gurbani, Gurmukhs don't cry in the worldly sense. The ones who have recognized the hukam, don't cry because of worldly sorrow. Here is the pankiti that talks about this:

ਪਉੜੀ ॥
ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤਿਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਹੋਵਣਾ ॥
ਜਹ ਜਹ ਰਖਹਿ ਆਪਿ ਤਹ ਜਾਇ ਖੜੋਵਣਾ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੈ ਕੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਧੋਵਣਾ ॥
ਜਪਿ ਜਪਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਭਰਮੁ ਭਉ ਖੋਵਣਾ ॥
ਜੋ ਤੇਰੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤੇ ਸੇ ਜੋਨਿ ਨ ਜੋਵਣਾ ॥
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਇਕੁ ਨੈਣ ਅਲੋਵਣਾ ॥
ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਪਛਾਤਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਰੋਵਣਾ ॥
ਨਾਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਪਰੋਵਣਾ ॥੧੮॥

The above Gurvaak applies to Gurmukhs who have realized Vaheguru. It's perfectly normal for ordinary people including Gursikhs cry, laugh, etc. A Gursikh, even if he or she has not attained the topmost spiritual avastha, tries to stay normal in times of adversity and japp Naam and do paath, instead of crying.

If a person is crying because bairaag, it is wonderful. Bairaag for Guru Sahib or Vaheguru is great and such crying is a step towards Vaheguru as per the following pankitis:

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਜਣੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਕੋਈ ਆਣਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਜੀਵਾਇਆ ॥
ਹਉ ਰਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੇਖੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮਾ ਮੈ ਨੀਰੁ ਵਹੇ ਵਹਿ ਚਲੈ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥

Siri Guru Raamdaas jee Maharaaj, in the above pankiti is stating the avastha of a Bairaagi Gursikh who can't live without having vision or darshan of Pritam Pyaare Vaheguru and as a result tears are constantly flowing through his eyes.

Kulbir Singh


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