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Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: kh@ls@ (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2008 03:06AM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I am seeing more and more bibian, especially those associated with AKJ wearing make-up. So many bhenji's are doing this that it is now seen as the norm. I am talking about lipstick and eye-liner, blusher etc. AKJ bibian have gone a step further to even wear wedding rings etc.

It is a bad problem in the UK especially

Many people shun away from the responsibilty of saying it is completely wrong to wear make-up and I really don't know why. Some of the pictures that are on facebook are really shocking of such bhenji's.

Why are the gursikh bibian westernising their looks? and why do it when wearing they have been blessed with the daan of a dastaar?

Should AKJ rehat be relaxed now to allow for such modern changes? Nobody wants to get involved.

If bibian can wear make-up then is it ok for Singh's to dye their beards now?

Bhenji's that wear dastaar need to know that it is wrong to wear make-up, period.


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2008 05:24AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

khalsa jee,

the only way this will stop is if the singhs who do panj piyarae dee seva make it explicitly known during the a(n)mrit sanchaar that make-up, ear-rings etc. cannot be used/worn.

it could even be passed at the upcoming UK jatha AGM that an announcement should be made by the jatha, at local levels, telling the sangat that make-up/jewellery, dying/gelling-dharee, tying-up dharee (unless required for safety during working-hours) are all manmat acts and those who have peshed should not do these things.

unless that happens, many people will carry-on despite loving appeals from other members of the sangat.

al these things, sadly, are another sign that the jatha of today has less kalaa due to less observation of rehit...

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: ... (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2008 01:40PM

excuses that i have heard and DO NOT condone:

> pressure from society to look good
> singhs shunning bibia with excessive facial hair
> they dont think theres anything wrong with it
> not enough support from their own sangat
> bibia they look up to do it
> MARRIAGE.

i realise some of those overlap, but thats everything ive been told.
also, if we go in with all guns blazing saying 'haww anti gurmat' etc
theyre just gonna ignore us n think that we dont understand
we just need to use a bit of tact when talking to these bibia,
and hopefully, in the end with maharaajs apaar kirpa they will stop

vaheguroojeekakhalsa vaheguroojeekeefateh

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: kh@ls@ (IP Logged)
Date: August 01, 2008 04:18AM

wjkk wjkf
well i guess we are fighting a losing battle
it is now the 'norm' to wear make up for akj bibian without any inhibitions
now the norm is to adorn the 'wedding rings' too for both 'singh' and 'singhni'

May gurusahib bless us to help keep original rehat
wjkk wjkf

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: gurmantar (IP Logged)
Date: August 03, 2008 11:23AM

i think this is a very sad thing we are discussing...vaheguru mehr kareah!

slok mÚ 3 ]
salok ma 3 ||
Salok, Third Mehla:

jgqu jlµdw riK lY AwpxI ikrpw Dwir ]
jagath jala(n)dhaa rakh lai aapanee kirapaa dhhaar ||
The world is going up in flames - shower it with Your Mercy, and save it!

ijqu duAwrY aubrY iqqY lYhu aubwir ]
jith dhuaarai oubarai thithai laihu oubaar ||
Save it, and deliver it, by whatever method it takes.

siqguir suKu vyKwilAw scw sbdu bIcwir ]
sathigur sukh vaekhaaliaa sachaa sabadh beechaar ||
The True Guru has shown the way to peace, contemplating the True Word of the Shabad.

nwnk Avru n suJeI hir ibnu bKsxhwru ]1]
naanak avar n sujhee har bin bakhasanehaar ||1||
Nanak knows no other than the Lord, the Forgiving Lord. ||1||

sangat needs to follow the amazing instructions of our guru and not their own manmat...nam jap!

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: gurmantar (IP Logged)
Date: August 03, 2008 02:20PM

paan supaaree khaatheeaa mukh beerreeaa laaeeaa ||
Those who eat betel nuts and betel leaf and apply lipstick,


har har kadhae n chaethiou jam pakarr chalaaeeaa ||13||
but do not contemplate the Lord, Har, Har - the Messenger of Death will seize them and take them away. ||13||

vaheguru

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: Manjot Singh Khalsa (IP Logged)
Date: August 04, 2008 12:16PM

The wedding ring issue I have heard some people say it is so that people know they are married and not "dating". I can understand this as my singhnee is quite young looking and sometimes Indian people who don't know us give us strange looks or have even mentioned that she is my "girlfriend" or some strange stuff, even if we have told them we are married.

Still, I wouldn't wear a ring and I can't see a valid reason to wear a ring or makeup.

Ok, I could understand if someone had gotten in some horrible accident in which their face was completely scarred, but even then, it was bhanna.

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: Matheen (IP Logged)
Date: August 04, 2008 12:52PM

gurmantar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> paan supaaree khaatheeaa mukh beerreeaa laaeeaa
> ||
> Those who eat betel nuts and betel leaf and apply
> lipstick,
>
> vaheguru

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Gurmukho, that translation is wrong - beerree is a cigarette, not lip-stick.

Is there anything in Gurbani, or any Rehatnama which prohibits make-up? What is reasoning behind it being bad?

Forgive my ignorance.

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: RSinghNY (IP Logged)
Date: August 04, 2008 01:43PM

This day and age katha should be a part of AKJ smagams. Maybe it was necessary in the past or I don't know what the deal was, but they need to explain more to people. Doing Keertan is great, but not everyone understands, especially the more 'valati' people. Having good Gursikhs doing katha at AKJ smagams is a good way to start and tell people what is wrong and right.

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: gurmantar (IP Logged)
Date: August 05, 2008 06:27AM

Matheen ji that translation was straight from sikhitothemax.com ...

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: RSinghNY (IP Logged)
Date: August 05, 2008 07:28AM

Beeree is traditional style cigarette. It is what people used to smoke in those days and still do, you can easily find them in villages. Think of beeree not like a traditional cigarette, but tobacco in a dried up leaf. Maybe you can compare it to a 'joint.'

It makes sense in that 'pangti' that it is talking about a cigarette as the first two things are both of the similar family. I really hate to read punjabi in english fonts as its hard to understand for me, so I could be wrong about this.

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: baba amarjeet singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 05, 2008 12:08PM

rsinghny

i disagree. katha should not be part of akj smagams. non stop keertan is what makes rainsbais and smagams so enjoyable. if katha is to be done, it should be done separately, not in the middle of keertan. keertan is highest form of katha, har kee katha, the katha of vahiguroo is above all else.

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: Tarun Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 06, 2008 02:25AM

We are already seeing some discussions after kirtan for the youth as was the case in Toronto this year (or so I hear)... I think these are useful, but it comes down to whether the message of these discussions will actually resonate with the youth instead of it being seen as a repetitious attempt at 'preaching'

bhul chuk maaf karni

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 06, 2008 05:48AM

There are many rehitnamas available today from teh 18th and 19th century. Many are very detailed and specific with regards to conduct and appearance.

Instead of commiting paap and misquoating Gurbani (which is not a sharia manual may I add), could someone please provide a rehit whic prohibits make up.

I am only playing devils advocate here, but to correct some misinformation above, make up or beautification is more an evolving ancient Indian tradition rather than a modern western one. There are many metaphorical mentions of a bride beautifying herself in Gurbani - showing that it was traditional in the times of our Guru's also.

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: RSinghNY (IP Logged)
Date: August 06, 2008 06:42AM

I've been to many samagams where bhai Pala Singh has done katha. He has always been encouraged to do it at samagas. I know many of the high level UK AKJ Singhs that I've spoken to feel some sort of katha or discussions should be held.

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: ramsar (IP Logged)
Date: August 06, 2008 08:52AM

i believe this to be a valid argument kh@ls@ has made. however, i see this issue as a downward spiral, and little can be done as the parents of these girls are not concerned.

we live in a society where we have other peoples ideals rammed down our throats every moment of our lives. we are told we need to look a certain way, act a certain way, and live our life a certain way according to ideals being sold to us by tv, movies, ads, and so on.

until we teach our children of what it is to close your eyes to this world, and for once, use our own minds to decipher what life is, we will continue this spiral.

my advice is to compare this to as a house on fire. save yourselves and your own children, as this fire is only getting worse. improve yourselves, as that is the only way to make society better.

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 06, 2008 10:50AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

khalsa jeeo,

keertan is katha - katha is keertan...akath dee katha.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: gurmantar (IP Logged)
Date: August 06, 2008 02:00PM

Ramsar ji ...i agree with you 100%...it is through the right sangat being a positive example to them, that these bibia will see that they are going against gurmat..vaheguru

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: kh@ls@ (IP Logged)
Date: August 07, 2008 04:05AM

it's just the hypocricy, these bhenji's wear make-up and wedding rings etc when they are 'out and about' but when it comes to smagams, they take it all off

why do this?, do they not think that akal purakh knows everything? why act all 'pakhandi' in guru sahib's darbar?

and now AKJ weddings allow the bride to come in wearing make up when back in the day, this was not allowed. Even a 'lehnga' can been worn!

Bhenji's who don't wear make-up who are trying to educate those who are thirsty in sikhi saroop get questioned to this matter, now even akj don't have a leg to stand on regarding this matter because they are allowing their own daughters/sisters/mothers to become so relaxed in their rehat.

There are even pictures on the net where a 'gursikh' couple have gone on honeymoon last year, the bibi has taken her keski off (covering her head with a patka), wearing a sleeve-less low cut top with necklaces etc. Waheguru. The traditional gatra has been replaced by a 'belt' gatra so that it does not interfere with the wearing of this 'manmukh' way of dress. Waheguru :(

As far as wearing wedding rings are involved, so that people know you are married, this is a pathetic excuse IMO. Why do you have to show to people you are married by means of a wedding ring?. Did the wives of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawalai, Baba Harnam Singh Jee and other mahapursha wear wedding rings?. When you go for amrit sanchar do you see any of the panj pyarai wearing rings?. If your soul has merged as one during the anand karaj, then why add something external?.

Katha is the answer, a smagam shouldn't only be about kirtan, it should be about gursikhi jeevan also, when kirtan isn't going on then camps/talks should be held. Ramsimar has made a valid point also in saying that the right sangat is necessary. But these days, sangat is all about 'popularity'.

These bhenji's are going to be the future mothers of the khalsa panth. May guru sahib do kirpa on us!

 



Re: Lipstick, eyeliner, blusher + Bhenji's
Posted by: gurmantar (IP Logged)
Date: August 07, 2008 05:22AM

i think thts a good point that at the times when kirten is not going on, ie during the rensabai or evening kirten programe, talks or discussions should be held, during the day...i think this is a really good use of time...

 
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