ਚੁਕਾਰਅਜ਼ਹਮਹਹੀਲਤੇਦਰਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ॥ਹਲਾਲਅਸਤਬੁਰਦਨਬਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰਦਸਤ॥੨੨॥ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥)

Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai


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who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 22, 2008 10:05PM

This is what I think of painde khan. He was a sikh and a muslim. How?
He listened to the teaching of muslim prophet mohammad. At the same time he listened to the teachings of Satguru jee. He dint do bajjar kurehits, must have been given amrit by Satguru jee and must have also got mool mantarr from Satguru jee. I dont think he was given gurmantarr as for gurmantarr one has to do complete submission before Satguru jee which he dint do.
In short, painde khan was both a sikh and a muslim.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: hopeless (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 05:11AM

you can't be a sikh and a muslim at the same time.....you can't have your feet in two boats.........Harinder veer i suggest you read this amazing revelation that i came across.....its called Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.......or stop posting the most amount of useless and gurmatt misinformed posts that i have ever come across.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 07:39AM

Hopeless,

Could I ask what Sayyid Pir Budhu Shah was?

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 08:49AM

hopeless jee,
gurmantarr IS THE MOST POWERFUL. Painda khan dint have gurmantar and thats why he lost in the end. gurmantar is only for people WHO COMPLETELY SUBMIT BEFORE SATGURU JEE. So dont worry.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: singhstah (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 09:21AM

harinder singh ji i really dont understand youre true motives behind these posts...
stick to normal sikhi.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: singhstah (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 09:59AM

just to add, read what gurbani says about what a "muslim" (one who has given full submission to Vaheguru) in the literal sense of the word is. the shabad has made it clear tht being a follower of Mohammed and carrying out Ilsamic practices does not make a person one who has submitted to Vaheguru, but only that person who has done the following:
ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Salok mehlā 1.
Shalok, First Mehl:

ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
Mihar masīṯ siḏak muslā hak halāl kurāṇ.
Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.

ਸਰਮ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਰੋਜਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ॥
Saram sunaṯ sīl rojā hohu musalmāṇ.
Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.

ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਬਾ ਸਚੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਕਲਮਾ ਕਰਮ ਨਿਵਾਜ ॥
Karṇī kābā sacẖ pīr kalmā karam nivāj.
Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.

ਤਸਬੀ ਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਖੈ ਲਾਜ ॥੧॥
Ŧasbī sā ṯis bẖāvsī Nānak rakẖai lāj. ||1||
Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1||

Guru Sahib has COMPLETELY demoloished Islamic rituals here. So it is impossible for someone to be a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj and a Muslim at the same time.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 11:10AM

may be we can call painde khan sehajdhari sikh.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: hopeless (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 12:15PM

if anyone wants to be called a sikh.......he has to take amrit because sikh means to learn,a disciple and thus if you take satguru as your teacher then you make that known to the teacher,sat guru, by taking amrit otherwise you are a novice that is preparing............it was normal practice in the past for newborn babies to take amrit and not the sillyness that is being practiced today for young kids (chuoolla).............and terms like sehajdhari sikhs should then also include the 'hells angels'(north american bike gang) as they to have not taken amrit.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2008 07:45PM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ॥

ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਜੀਉ,

ਸਾਨੂੰ ਨ੍ਹੀ ਪਤਾ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਖਾਂ ਸਿੱਖ ਸੀ ਜਾਂ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਪਰ ਇਸ ਗੱਲ ਦਾ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਪਤਾ ਏ ਕਿ ਉਹਦੀ ਮੌਤ ਮੀਰੀ ਪੀਰੀ ਦੇ ਮਾਲਕ ਵਾਲੀਏ ਦੋ ਜਹਾਨ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੇਰੇ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਦੀ ਤੇਗ ਹੋਈ ਸੀ। ਹੁਣ ਜਿਸ ਬੰਦੇ ਦੀ ਮੌਤ ਬੰਦੀ ਛੋੜ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਅਤੇ ਆਨ ਭਾਵ ਕਿਰਪਾਨ ਤੋਂ ਹੋਈ ਹੋਵੇ ਉਹ ਸੌ ਫੀਸਦੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਹੀ ਬਣੇਗਾ। ਸਾਡਾ ਪੂਰਨ ਭਰੋਸਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪੈਂਦੇ ਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਰੂਹ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਬਣ ਕੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਘਰ ਵਿਚ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਵਿਚਰੀ ਹੋਵੇਗੀ ਅਤੇ ਸੱਚਖੰਡ ਦੇ ਰਾਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਚਲੀ ਗਈ ਹੋਵੇਗੀ।
***************************************************
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਭਨਾ ਦਾ ਭਲਾ ਮਨਾਇਦਾ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਬੁਰਾ ਕਿਉ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 302
***************************************************

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸਿੱਖਾ ਨੂੰ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦਾਨ, ਕੇਸ ਦਾਨ, ਰਹਿਤ ਦਾਨ, ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦਾਨ, ਵਿਸਾਹ ਦਾਨ, ਭਰੋਸਾ ਦਾਨ, ਦਾਨਾਂ ਸਿਰ ਦਾਨ ਨਾਮ ਦਾਨ ਅਤੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਸ ਕਰਨ॥

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ॥

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 24, 2008 07:41AM

uffffffffffffffffffffffffff.........WHAT A POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

even if crores of painde khan join togehter, just one vaar of Guru Hargobind Jee Maharaaj is enough to beat the hell out of all of them.
Satguru Hargobind Jee Maharaaj is MAN(100%) and painde khan is a khussraaaaa .

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 24, 2008 10:37AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

khalsa jeeo,

we should be careful about suggesting this hypothetical concept that 'although maharaaj jee din't give x gurmantar, they were given some other less powerful mantar'. this concept is not in consonance with GurbaaNee or Gurmat.

imho, there is one gurmantar referred to throughout gurbaanee as satnaam, har naam, raam naam, aad mant, beej mantar etc. and then there is moolmantar which itself has been used for the basis of manglacharan in siree guroo granth sahib jee.

to jap naam, to be given gur-deekhiya, to be given naam-dhrir all refers to gurmantar. there is no basis to suggest that maharaaj jee provided anything else of a spiritually useful but 'lesser power' to non-sikhs.

that siree dasmesh pita jee who required heads, minds, bodies and kurbaanee, how could they who submitted to him not give everything, and how could mahraaj jee not inspire complete obedience?

this reminds me of how some 'sikh scholars' say that mardana was a 'muslim follower' of siree guroo nanak sahib jee...the beggars belief.bhai mardana was nothing less than a completely devoted gursikh who must have kept maharaaj jee's hukams, such as nitnaym, and rejected muslim beliefs/concepts such as bowing to kaaba, fasting etc.

veer/bhain 'singstha' has given a shabad which confirms that whenever ideal muslims, pandits, brahmins etc. are described, they are effectively being told to become gursikhs.

we sometimes don't realise this because we think maharaaj jee needs to say in all these shabads 'become a sikh and leave islam/hinduism' in order for it to all make sense but that's not how it works...maharaaj jee reveals truth in a much deeper, non-partisan, essential sense. gurmat is beyond 'worldy religion' and language games. notwithstanding this, when we hear in asa kee vaar the folloing panktee, is this not clear enough:

ਬਿਨੁਸਤਿਗੁਰਕਿਨੈਨਪਾਇਓਬਿਨੁਸਤਿਗੁਰਕਿਨੈਨਪਾਇਆ॥
Without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord; without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਵਿਚਿਆਪੁਰਖਿਓਨੁਕਰਿਪਰਗਟੁਆਖਿਸੁਣਾਇਆ॥
He has placed Himself within the True Guru; revealing Himself, He declares this openly.
(Ang 466)

without submitting to siree guroo sahib and obtaining gurmantar/satnaam/beej mantar etc., one can do all they want but they cannot reach choutha pad/sach khand/ninrankoor-roopee vaheguroo. what's more, this has been firmly declared by satguroo jee many times. they may get heavens, wealth, miraculous powers but these temporary enjoyments, these janjalae (entaglments), all fall very short of merging with the beloved.

please note that i am not saying that all those who assisted maharaaj jee were gursikhs because then siree guroo hargobind sahib jee would not have had to build a mosque for muslims who fought in his army, but what i am saying is that those who became gursikhs did not give 'half a head' or follow 'limited rehit' and neither were they given 'a lesser mantar'.

"Satguru Hargobind Jee Maharaaj is MAN(100%) and painde khan is a khussraaaaa" .

i don't know what to make of that...lol.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 24, 2008 01:18PM

Harinder Singh, chill out.

A Khusar would not have the guts to challenge the Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji.

Guru Ji is said to have raised Painda Khan under his own wing, and taught him the art of battle (the final episode being Painda Khans last lesson). Painda Khan was said to have seen himself as being blessed at being cut down by the holy sword of his Guru, and dying in his Masters arms.

No need to be so rude.

In any case, my question remains, what was Sayyid Pir Budhu Shah, Sain Mian Mir and Baba Sheikh Farid Shakarganj if not enlightened true Muslims?

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 24, 2008 02:18PM

<<< In any case, my question remains, what was Sayyid Pir Budhu Shah, Sain Mian Mir and Baba Sheikh Farid Shakarganj if not enlightened true Muslims?>>>

they were certainly saintly spiritual souls, no doubt about it. but whether they got their naam activated(amrit chakk) from Satguru jee , I dont know but i have a feeling Satguru jee must have given amrit to them. PirBudha Shah is out of this world and I guess will beat lots of sikhs in their loyalty towards Satguru jee.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 24, 2008 10:08PM

<<< A Khusar would not have the GUTS to challenge the Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji>>>


Harcharan Singh, I dont agree with u. Imagine u are a young boy with not much knowledge about computers. A saintly person teaches u computers, HACKING(without charging any money from u, infact he gives u money and food). AFter learning hacking, u backstab ur "hacking ustaad" and try to hack his computer.
Now answer, will u call it GUTS ?????
No, its haramkhori, AKIRTKHANNTAAA.
It was the TARASS of MARD Guru Hargobind Jee Mahraaj that Painde Khan was given death VIA SHASTAR.

Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan BHAI SAHIB BACHITTAAR SINGH JEE
SOORAA SO PEHCHANNIYE JO LARRE DEEN KE HET PURRJAA, PURRJAA KATT MARREE KABHU NA CHANDAI KHET

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2008 03:10AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

khalsa jeeo,

in many ways it is hard to find detail regarding their jeevans. my personal feelings are that Sayyid Pir Budhu Shah and Sain Mian Mir were either very pious and good muslims or they had been blessed with a(n)mrit. if they were the former, they could not have obtained darshan of nirankaree vaheguroo but may have had a very high avastha (perhaps up to karam khand) through practising japp/zikar of kirtam naam i.e. allah-hoo etc.

if they were the latter, then they could have potentially been enlightened gursikhs i.e. they would have practised japp of gurmantar and may have obtained darshan of nirankaree vaheguroo.

to the best of my limited knowledge, there is no shabad within gurbaaNee which supports the idea of a human being obtaining darshan of nirankaree vaheguroo without receiving naam directly from vaheguroo/siree satguroo sahib. in kaljug, this responsibility, the dispensation of naam, rests exclusively with siree guroo nanak sahib jee. gurbaaNee is very clear and direct regarding this.

there are several theories regarding the bhagats whose baaNee is found in gurbaaNee - who they actually were, how they received naam etc. these can be explored.

regarding this issue, i feel there is room for speculation. bhai sahib raNdheer singh and gianee gurdit singh have both put forward explanations which differ with the mainstream idea i.e. these muslims were good muslims, gurbaanee contains the baaNee of 'non-Sikhs', any sincere member of any faith can obtain vaheguroo darshan etc.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2008 06:07AM

Harinder Singh,

Your example says it all - a comparison between the compassionate nature of Guru Hargobind Ji and a play/lesson between a father and son (adopted), for which Guru Ji forgave Painda Khan by holding him in his arms during his death - and a 'Saint' teaching someone how to hack in to computers!

The point was simply about your rudeness i.e. calling Painda Khan a khusar and your incorrect terminology. Gut's was not the issue here - it was haumai.

Veer Atma Singh ji - there is nothing to say that these blessed souls did not receive naam direct from Vaheguru or Guru and remained true Muslims - it is only our narrow and biased way of thinking that limits kudrati khel - God is not limited to one faith, but is the creator of all faiths - I personally believe that many holy people outside of Sikh have found place in Vaheguru's charan (moksha).

Baba Farid Ji was a Muslim. He was part of the Christi Sufi order. He existed before Sat-Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Evidence of his loyalty to Islam and divine blessing lie in the facts that his Murids exist to this day with the name Farooqi and are known as Faridi's. His beautiful Mazar is maintained and revered by Muslims to this day. In addition - his holy verses were included in Gurbani - thereby giving clear evidence of Baba Ji's divine nature.

Also, re Bhai Mardana Ji - his descendants exist to this day - Rabbabi is a term known to refer to Muslim Kirtani - Rababi's are the perfect living example of Muslims who believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They were only kicked out of Gur-ghar during the 1920's Sikh reforms.

People will argue because they can't live with the fact that dharma and kirpa exist (always have) outside of Sikhi as well. We today are no different to other faiths who claim monopoly on God and salvation.

As in all faiths, finding true adherants is extremely difficult/near impossible - but our Guru Sahiban were Kalyug Avtar - they showed that Guru's kirpa was universal and gained through spiritual action rather than communal identity.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2008 09:28AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

veer harcharan singh jee,

i don't deny that vaheguroo has created all faiths. what i am trying to say is that without receiving gurmantar, without becoming a gursikh of siree guroo nanak sahib jee, one cannot have nirankaree darshan of vaheguroo.

you are welcome to believe that many have reached sachkhand/nirgun vaheguroo 'via other faiths', but i humbly believe that your point of view cannot be evidenced by gurbaaNee. i would suggest that you also look at bhai gurdaas jee's vaaraa(n) which make very clear the reason for siree guroo nanak sahib jee's advent.

re: baba fareed. you mean chistee order. i haven't read gianee gurdit singh's book 'bhagat baaNee' but apparently it offers lots of evidence to suggest that the baba farid of gurbaaNee was the 'pir' in place at the time of siree guroo nanak sahib jee, regarding the chistee order i.e. he shared the same name-sake as one of his illustrious predecessors. therefore, this baba farid would have been placed to take charan pahul from siree guroo nanak sahib jee. i don't want to discuss this too much because as a i said, i am only relying on second hand info.

one other theory is that the bhagats had reached karam khand (which is actually eternal and non-perishable) and were given naam by siree guroo nanak sahib jee at which point they entered sach khand and were blessed with dhur-kee-baaNee, revealed via siree guroo granth sahib jee. i think bhai sahib raNdheer singh had this belief but i am again relying on second-hand knowledge.

personally, i cannot say either way; i therefore do not have a firm opinion. however, what is interesting is that bhagat kabir sahib jee's shabads which appear in siree guroo granth sahib jee to the best of my limited knowledge are not found in the bijak, the collection of his writings that kabir-panthees have in there possession. i am not sure either regarding bhagat farid sahib's verses; it may be the same situation. also, the fact that siree guroo mehls have seemingly 'combined their pankteeaa(n)' with bhagat baaNee in places also suggests some sort of dynamic concept and not a simple case of bhagat baaNe being 'included' in this 'catholic granth' as many people say.

this is an area which i would love to do some personal research one day but have not had a chance to do so. i write what i write above very tentatively.

re: bhai mardana. you are welcome to believe he remained a muslim because his muslim rababee descendants are muslims - that is you perogative. my belief is that bhai mardana must have kept his kesh, must have been vegetarian, must have done nitnaym, stopped reciting kalma etc. you can call it intuition or 'narrow-mindedness' - whatever you prefer. the fact that his relatives do not assume the same form as him does not convince me otherwise - i used to know one girl who claimed she was a descendant of shaheed baba deep singh jee (her surname was shaheed) - she had cut hair, wore make-up and dated boys...

i do not believe that all dharams aside from gurmat are kirpa-heen. it is truly beautiful how people obtain the fruits of their actions despite what dharam they follow. i have met many atheits, pagans, muslims who are better spiritually than most of the 'sikhs' i know. however, this does not detract from the fact that gurmat naam in kaljug is the only way to merge with vaheguroo and one must become a sikh of siree guroo nanak sahib jee to obtain gurmat naam. followers of other dharams get what they work for. so do sikhs...most of us wll not obtain vaheguroo's darshan. however, the potential is there...among millions, a rare few of us will obtain darshan. sikhee goes beyond 'religious observance' which is only considered a means and not the end. siree dasmesh pita jee has truly created the 'perfect/complete human-being' - we just have to follow his hukams and we get a shot at the ultimate goal.

the four jug cyle is about to end - kaljug will turn to satjug maybe in the next few hundred, thousand or million years. this is the driving purpose behind siree guroo nanak sahib jee's advent - to rescue kaljug i.e. turn it into satjug. for this reason, that gurmat naam/aad mant/satnaam/beej mantr which was gupt has been made readily accessible and openly available to those of blessed destiny on planet earth. i believe that satjug will only come when millions of people are blessed with gurmat naam, keep rehit, do gurmat bhagtee and bring about massive spiritual change on this earth.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2008 03:07PM

Veer Atma Singh Ji,

Thanks for your reply.

Please try and refrain from using bad examples by way of comparison - your description of a so called disrespectful descendant of Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji and the beautiful devotees of Guru Sahiban who devoted their whole existence to singing Gurbani and preserving puratan kirtan is an offensive comparison.

The rest as you say is a matter of opinion, interpretation and research.

Even if we go by the Sheikh Ibraheem (Farid Saaini) theory - then it must be noted that this Sufi Farid was a direct descendent of Baba Sheikh Farid and the 11th successor of his school (Pakpattan). This Farid Ji's sons also followed in his Islamic-Sufi footsteps.

There seems to be a huge miseducation today about the anti-ritual themes in Gurbani - refering to both Indic and Semetic faiths. The holy words are not saying that these faiths are false or powerless - they are simply refering to the adherants loss of objective i.e. union with almighty - and their obsession with ritual instead of internal search.

Medieval Indic Sufi and Bhakti poetry is replacent with anti-established religion and overbearing ritual messages (as per Gurbani).

Here is an example by Sufi Sultan Bahu:


I am not knowledgeable, nor a learned man

Neither a Jurist, nor a qazi (judge)

No desire for hell in my heart, nor heaven do I seek

I do not keep the thirty fasts or say the five prayers

Without union with Allah, this world is an illusory game


We need to understand Gurbani in the correct context and not use it as a tool to demote other faiths.

In any case we have other Muslim examples of devoted Sikhs (students of the Guru) such as Sain Mian Mir.

 



Re: who was painde khan ?
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 27, 2008 06:15AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

veer harcharan singh jee,

my intention was not to slur the name of present day muslim rababees linked to bhai mardana. my intention was to show that descendants and ancestors very often differ.

to say that without siree satguroo sahib jee there can be no ultimate salvation is not to 'demote other faiths' - it is simply to point out what gurbaaNee teaches us.

if this fact is used by 'Sikhs' to give themselves ego-boosts or to look-down upon others, then that is a reflection of their spiritual state, and nothing to do with the veracity of gurbaanee.

gursikhs should always remember that we wish for out mat to be uchee but for our man to be neevaa. a true gursikh considers themselves the worst of all. gursikhs walk the path of the finest hair and sharpest sword, where ego anbd self-adulation assail them. no doubt, many will fail the test and treat gurmat, and their send of 'belonging to sikhee' as a stick to beat others with.

only that person remains humble throughout their spiritual journey, and despite exalting inner spiritual experiences, whom mahraaj jee keeps humbles.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 





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