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punj pyare or punj singhs
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 03, 2008 01:54AM

Waheguru jee ka khalsa Waheguru jee kee fateh
During amrit sanchar, the 5 singhs are punj pyare or are they trying to subsitute for the punj pyare of 1699 ????
Can we call a group of any 5 singhs 'punj pyare' or does the term 'pyare pyare' be used only for those mahaan 5 singhs chosen by Dashmesh Pita in 1699?

Thanks

 



Re: punj pyare or punj singhs
Posted by: singhbj (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2008 04:28AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Punj Piyaras -
Bhai Daya Singh Ji,
Bhai Dharam Singh Ji,
Bhai Himmat Singh Ji,
Bhai Mohkam Singh Ji,
Bhai Sahib Singh Ji,
loved Guru Gobind Singh ji and cherished Hukum more than life itself. According to Sikh history, they never got married and followed Guru Sahib's Hukum throughout their lives.

In present times, the Seva of Punj Piyaras is performed by ones chosen from a number of volunteer's, within their respective jatha or sect.

I don't think that any jatha or sect uses the same method of selection which was used to distinguish Tat Khalsa from Badae Khalsa in Sikh history.

Anyway this doesn't mean that chosen Punj shouldn't be given the same honour and powers as bestowed by Guru Gobind Singh ji to the Punj Piyaras.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ॥
I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar, given by the True Guru.


ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਦੂਆ ਤੀਆ ॥
I do not know any other second or third.


ਏਕੋ ਏਕੁ ਸੁ ਅਪਰ ਪਰੰਪਰੁ ਪਰਖਿ ਖਜਾਨੈ ਪਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੨॥
He is the One, Unique, Infinite and Endless Lord; He evaluates all beings and places some in His treasury. ||12||

Source: [www.srigranth.org]

Supreme authority is Guru Granth Sahib jeeo.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: punj pyare or punj singhs
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2008 11:08AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

singhbj jio,

quote"I don't think that any jatha or sect uses the same method of selection which was used to distinguish Tat Khalsa from Badae Khalsa in Sikh history."

wow, wow! first time read this could you please elaborate more?

Guru Mehar karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: punj pyare or punj singhs
Posted by: singhbj (IP Logged)
Date: April 17, 2008 06:14AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Bandei-Khalsa

After the martyrdom of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur some Sikhs began to regard him (Banda Singh) as Guru. They were called Bandeis. But the strict followers of Guru Gobind Singh, or Tat Khalsa, believed that the system of personal Guruship had ended with the Tenth Guru. The Bandeis began to claim that they should have an equal share in the management of the Gurdwaras and other affairs of the Panth. But the Tat Khalsa refused to accept this claim. They did not favor such divisions in the Panth. Still, the Bandeis persisted in their claim. Much tension was created between the two parties.

Mata Sundri, who was residing at Delhi, became aware of these troubles. She sent Bhai Mani Singh to Amritsar, with Sri Kirpal Singh, the maternal uncle of Guru Gobind Singh. He was charged with the duty of bringing about peace and unity among Singh. He was appointed Granthi (or head priest) of the Darbar Sahib. He was asked to organize the service in the Gurdwara and to manage its affairs. He was further told by her, 'Don't send any money from the offerings to me. The whole income should be spent there. It should be spent in maintaining the service, langar, and other needs of the institution. Bhai Mani Singh and his companion arrived at Amritsar in the beginning of 1721. In the consultation with the notables of the city, they put the affairs of the Gurdwara in order.

A few days later it was the Vaisakhi fair. Elaborate arrangements were made for the grand celebrations. Thousands of Sikhs gathered around the tank. The Tat Khalsa and the Bandeis also gathered in large numbers. They were preparing to come to blows. But Bhai Mani Singh came between them and saved the situation. He suggested that instead of fighting, they should decide their claim by casting lots. He took two slips of paper. On one he wrote, 'Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh'. These words were used by the Tat Khalsa when meeting and saluting each other. On the other slip he wrote, 'Fateh Darshan'. These words were used by the Bandeis for the same purpose. Both slips were immersed in the water at Har Ki Pauri. The agreement was that the party whose slip rose first to the surface, would be considered to have carried the day. For some time neither slip came up to the surface. It seemed as if both the slips had sunk forever. The parties stood in great suspense. At long last, the slip with Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh came to the surface. The Tat Khalsa was declared to have won. The Bandeis took it as the Guru's verdict. They agreed to give up their claim.

In this way, on account of Bhai Mani Singh's wisdom and sweetness, the dispute was settled in a peaceful manner.

Source: [www.panthic.org]


Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: punj pyare or punj singhs
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: April 17, 2008 11:10AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

singhbj jio,

In this stroy there is no mentioning of Panj piyare selection method for your quote "I don't think that any jatha or sect uses the same method of selection which was used to distinguish Tat Khalsa from Badae Khalsa in Sikh history."

The paper slips incident mentioned in the story is for
Quote"The agreement was that the party whose slip rose first to the surface, would be considered to have carried the day."

So, no mentioning of selection procedure for Panj? question still remains.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: punj pyare or punj singhs
Posted by: singhbj (IP Logged)
Date: April 18, 2008 04:33AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Firstly, it is not a story, it is part of Sikh history. A Sikh should always learn and gather wisdom from such past events in history.

Secondly, Out of the Singhs who volunteer for the Seva of Punj Piyaras. Selection should not be made by majority vote of the jatha, sect or committee members.

As Khalsa they should approach Guru Granth Sahib jeeo, do Ardas and then take out five slips from the lot in front of Guru Sahib jeeo. Tat Khalsa
obeys the will of ALMIGHTY, others who follow Bandei (i.e Banda or man) will drown.

ਖਸਮੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਦੂਜੈ ਲਗੇ ਡੁਬੇ ਸੇ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ॥
Those dealers who abandon their Lord and Master and attach themselves to another, are drowned.


ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬੋਹਿਥਾ ਵਿਰਲੈ ਕਿਨੈ ਵੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥
The True Guru is the boat, but few are those who realize this.


ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਾਰਿਆ ॥੧੩॥
Granting His Grace, He carries them across. ||13||

Source: [www.srigranth.org]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: punj pyare or punj singhs
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: April 18, 2008 10:19AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Singhbj jio,

Thanks for response.

Quote "Firstly, it is not a story, it is part of Sikh history. A Sikh should always learn and gather wisdom from such past events in history."

Then let's see how much truth about this so called history piece is. The true khalsa BABA BANDA SINGH BHADHUR is blamed by some Sikhs that he made two factions as singh jio named as Tat Khalsa and Bandai Khalsa. Which is completing false hood and we think by doing so we are pointing the finger towards Darvesh Pita, Ghat Ghat ke Antar Kee Janat Bhalay Buray Ki Peer Pashanat Sahib sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee and pointing towards Guru Sahib we think is a great Sin. This is true that Bhai Mani Singh Jee resolved a fight by above procedure but that dates 18th October 1723 many years after Shaheedi of Baba Jee and this fight was in between quite popular Amar Singh Khemkarni and Trayhan family of Kahan Singh, Miri Singh. The fight was over the control of Gurudwara and its Golak not over any Gurmat principle. This is also indicated by this
Quote "The agreement was that the party, whose slip rose first to the surface, would be considered to have carried the day."
Now if some one name these two parties as whatever khalsa then it has nothing to do with BABA BANDA SINGH BHADUR. singhbj jio you may ask us that you did not mention about BABA JEE and two sects so why we are writing all this then we would say even though you did not mentioned the name of BABA jee but some people who uses those two sects names blindly say those were formed by BABA jee and we have no idea why some people so easily believe the Nindya of this great Sikh General, the true SIKH until his last breath and he is the one who overturned the Mugul rule of 7-8 centuries and always stayed in chardi kala and kept the highest respect for Guru Sahib. We strongly believe who ever does this Nindya is not in favor of Sikhi and Khalsa nation.

Coming back to question about selection of Panj by Parchi (Paper slip) system Although above story did not justify this thinking
Quote" I don't think that any jatha or sect uses the same method of selection which was used to distinguish Tat Khalsa from Badae Khalsa in Sikh history."
However, this incident indicated whenever there is a fight over an issue that can also be resolved by this Paper Slip procedure. Literally this quote sounded like one sect had some thing different than other sect for Panj Piyare selection. Any way according to Gurmat:
**********************************
ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥
ਪੰਚੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
ਪੰਚੇ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਦਰਿ ਰਾਜਾਨੁ ॥
ਪੰਚਾ ਕਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥ Panna 3
**********************************
The procedure adopted by Sangat to choose the best (chardi Kala, more Kamai Valey) Singhs for Panj Piyare seva is still the best procedure as adopted thru out the history and atleast we never seen a fight for Panj Piyare di seva, In fact some times it is so hard to find Singhs for this seva. So, we think there is no doubt for this procedure. In last but not least, thanks for this discussion.

Bhai Harinder Singh Jio,

For your question in our humble opinion Sangat names Panj Piyare when they conduct Amrit Sanchar or leading the Panthic Karaj (cause) in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: punj pyare or punj singhs
Posted by: singhbj (IP Logged)
Date: April 19, 2008 07:06AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Nobody is discussing your opinion, assumptions and knowledge about Sikh history. You are free to think what you like !

I have not stated anything which contitutes Ninda, the article and event in Sikh history is available at various links online.

There is a big difference between Gurmat and Manmat.

What a man does without consulting and guidance from Satguru is called Manmat !

There is no question regarding Punj Piyaras (title, respect & honour). The point is, Panch are those who follow Guru Sahib jeeo and cherish hukum not the ones who come out of one jatha, sect, committee, group consensus.

There is a lot of bias, communal influence, manmat in every jatha, sect, committee, group. Therefore it is necessary to apply the Slip system and receive true blessings and verdict of ALMIGHTY.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 





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