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giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 08:32AM

these days it seems to have become a trend that a person commits bajjar kurehit, gets pesh before punj, is forgiven and is given amrit again. Shud it be that simple ???? HOw were the bajjar kurehitiyes treated during Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee's time ???

Just a month back, a bibi was caught by her husband committing adultery with another singh. after the bibi was beaten, she confessed that she was doing this for the last 6-7 years, PUnj singhs ordered the boycott of the pattit couple untill theyl get pesh. The bibi got pesh ,was forgiven and was given amrit again.
That bibi was getting patit for the last 6-7 years but still kept on wearing kakkaars, kept on doing kirtan at smagams, kept on doing langar de seva, akhand paath de seva. I personally ate from her hands.

that bibi committed bajjar kurehit and did back on Satguru and then that bibi kept on deceiving Guru Roop sadh sangat for years. Shud such a neech ghatiyaansaan be re-adminitered into the panth???

I personally feel panth needs to get tough with bajjar kurehityees especially the ones who after getting pattit keep on acting as amritdharis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2008 10:15AM by admin.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: khalsawannabe (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 10:25AM

the guru always welcomes everyone, you shouldnt be concerned about this harinder singh jee because taking amrit again, it just means they have another chance, they still have to do kmayee to make up for the maha paap they have done, if they dont then it will be sorted in dargah. the punj pyare are there to welcome anyone into sikhi, but it is upto the indivdual to make use of naam and jap it to reach waheguroo, or atleast wipe away their paap.

waheguru will judge us all in the end, why should we waste our time judging?

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 12:40PM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Harinder Singh jio,

Why only bibi was beaten why not also the other Singh too. We do not know about Bhai Sahib's time but can tell about 20-30 years before. First of all it was very rare that this situation happened because of strict peshi at first place to the Adhkari. One of our Singh told us that he was given Amrit at 3rd peshi, in other words when he was refused first Panj Piyare said that "ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਏਡਾ ਲੰਮਾ ਜਵਾਨ ਬੰਦਾ ਤੂੰ, ਜਾਹ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਸੰਸਾਰਿਕ ਅਨੰਦ ਮਾਣ, ਤੂੰ ਅੰਮਰਿਤ ਛਕ ਕੇ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ" and similar kind of things, he said came out then after thinking for a while he went in again and again then finally after a lot of ਪੁਣ ਛਾਣ he was given Amrit di daat. Means it was tuff to get Amrit di daat. We were reading ਸੋਨ ਚਿੜੀ ਚੜ੍ਹੀ ਗੈਣਿ written by Bhai Jodh Singh one of the companion of Bhai Sahib he mentioned since Bhai Sahib's time the Amrit di daat percentage was about 25-30% at any Amrit Sanchar done by Jatha. Which means if there were 100 persons went for Amrit Sanchar only 25 or 30 persons were approved as Adhkaris. Now one can imagine if it was hard to get Amrit at first place how any person would even think about committing such kurehat. We have seen with our own eyes if by chance any Singh committed such kurehat first he was given the GOTNA then peshi to Panj and Panj ordered to cover his mouth with ਤਵੇ ਦੀ ਸੁਆਹ then he was hand cuff with ਰੱਸਾ and then Panj piyare appoint a Singh usually Pehraydar Singh to give him acquaintance of whole Kirtan program area, in Langer area, in Jorraghar (shoe place) and every where, where sangat is present. He was not even allowed to say fateh instead there was some other phrase which we do not recall now then after finishing this he was given the daat again. Now do you think after all this he will do again?

Now regarding Panth's law it very lenient no peshi at all. So forget about this. Can you imagine pahewa vala Sadh in above description. No way! How about Iqbal Singh who have 2-3 bibiayan for raas lela yet he is Jathedar of Takhat and Sant Corporation Pvt. Ltd. is supporting this kurehtia. ਭਾਈ ਹੁਣ ਪੰਥ ਵਿਚ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਚਲਦੀ ਨੋਟਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਜਾਂ ਵੋਟਾਂ ਨਾਲ.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: gsingh (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 12:54PM

I somewhat agree with Harinder Singh. Amrit is given out too easily these days. Pyaraa Bhai daya Singh had to give his head to get amrit from Guru Sahib, today it is if as if people are getting begged to take amrit. In katha I've also heard that in the times of charan pahul, sikhs had to have done seva for long periods of time than guru sahib would do kirpa and give amrit. As long as we keep stressing quantity over quality, the shape of the panth as a whole will be in the shape it is in right now. It is important to understand that this is an issue that must be taken up at a panthic level and not at any jathebandi level. If only 1 jatha becomes strict on a rule like this, abhilaakees will just go to another jatha.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: gsingh (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 12:57PM

maybe a soltion to the problem that harinder singh brought up would be for panj singhs to tell the bibi to do joraeaa(n) dee seva for a year, and then come back and ask for amrit di daat. But this is at the discretion of the singhs.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: sidhu.hcl (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 01:56PM

In my personal thinking I dont think their is anything wrong if she confesses and re-baptised again.

at Dargah she is going to face for her deeds

Sant Sri Kabir Dass ji had clearly said :

"Kabeera teri jhopri, gal katiyan ke paas "
"kerenge so bharenge , tu kyo bhyaa udaas "

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 09:20PM

I am not against people given amrit again, but people who after getting pattitt, dont get pesh for years and keep on acting as amritdharis and keep on doing langar de seva, kirtan de seva, shud such people be given amrit again ????

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 09:31PM

pyare khalsaspirit veer jeoo,
THANKS A LOT for providing this great information. But
what about people who committ bajjar kurehit and for years
1. keep on wearing kakkkaars and keep on acting as amritdharis
2. keep on doing kirtan de seva, langar de seva, akhand paath de sevaa
3. keep on cheating the GURU ROOP sadhsangat

Infact, thats the main reason I started this thread, to know what shud be done to such people ???/

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 09:39PM

all the posters have just written what shud/shud not be done to a bajjar kurehitiyee.
But here we are talking about someone who after committing bajjar kurehit, kept on acting as amritdhari and kept on doing important sevaaavas like Sri akhand paath sahib, kirtan at smagams, cooking langar.
I FEEL THESE ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS SIGHNS. Instead of feeling remorse, guilt after pattitpunna, people for years keep on acting as amritdharis and keep on doing important sevaavas. I feel such people shud be shot dead.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2008 09:54PM

<< the guru always welcomes everyone, you shouldnt be concerned about this harinder singh jee because taking amrit again, it just means they have another chance, they still have to do kmayee to make up for the maha paap they have done, if they dont then it will be sorted in dargah. the punj pyare are there to welcome anyone into sikhi, but it is upto the indivdual to make use of naam and jap it to reach waheguroo, or atleast wipe away their paap.

waheguru will judge us all in the end, why should we waste our time judging?>>>

oye khalsa wannabe, tun jaddaa goody goody te farishtiyaan valiyaan gallan na karr. inna pollaa bann kee, gaddi nahin challnii, duniyaa mahaa shaitan ho gaye hai.
I dont care what this duniyaa does, i also dont care(unless i know that person and feel that he can come back into the panth) if somebody gets pattitt.But I do have problem if somebody after getting pattitt, still acts to be a part of sikh panth and performs important sevavaas of the panth, keeps on cheating guro roop sadhsangat.
I feel such a person has not only broken amrit but has ATTACKED KHANDE BAATE DA AMRIT.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: khalsawannabe (IP Logged)
Date: March 25, 2008 08:51AM

harinder singh ji i have nver seen any pyaar in your posts, you seem quite judgmental to everyone you don't know or dont consider important, like me. you seem to keep all tan di rehits, what about man di rehit? see what gurusahib says to people who have no pyaar to everyone and act like dharam rai.

anyway back to the topic, i agree this bibi went way too far remaing at the forefront of sevaa and acting like she was still amritdhari, however my point was to gerneal cases of bujjar kurehits. theres not much we can do except punjpyare give amrit again. the indivdual knows what to do, dont you think the punishments in dargah arent enough? do some research into the horrific torturings there...hopefully that will make you feel better that these people will have to suffer that much.

this bibi seems to have ALOT of kmayee to do with little time left to escape the jamdhoots, so dont worry about punishing her harinder singh.
you read rehraas evryday make sure you're atleast drinking amrit russ before deciding how to punish ppl, otherwise the jamdhoot will beat you even if your pukka in you rehit, as guru commands:
jine har har har russ nam na paya te bhagheen jam paas.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 25, 2008 10:01AM

khalsawannabe
why dont u see the bigger picture brother?
Its pretty easy to talk about pyaar and not being judgemental, etc. etc.
From 1699 to 2008, all enemies of panth have attacked the amrit sanchar ceremony.
if people who are not amritdharis ie. (people who never got amrit chakk or the ones who have broken the amrit) start acting as amritdharis, IT WILL RUIN THE AMRIT SANCHAR CEREMONY AND IT WILL RUIN THE PANTH.
Tommorrw an amritdhari who is unable to control lust might say , challo koi na lets have some rass leeela for 2 years, fer pesh ho jaange, or some rss youth might say, sikhi to bass pehle 5 guru's takk he the, challo fir bhi amrit chakk lo,kirpan pehan lo, bajjar kurehiton ke koi ahmiyat nahin.
do u want this? do u want non-amritharis wearing kakkaars and acting as amritdharis???

<<harinder singh ji i have nver seen any pyaar in your posts, you seem quite judgmental to everyone you don't know or dont consider important, like me. you seem to keep all tan di rehits, what about man di rehit? see what gurusahib says to people who have no pyaar to everyone and act like dharam rai. >>>

yaar, u dont even know me but still have passed so many comments about me.
anyways, thats the way God has made me, i will reap what i have sown, so instead of spending time on keerras like me, u shud give some thought to what i wrote above.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: singhstah (IP Logged)
Date: March 25, 2008 10:15AM

everyone must have a chance to redeem themselves, remember Guroo Maharaj is above all emotions, so he himself chooses who can recieve amrit when, and he does this perfectly.
We have the sakhi of Sajjan Thag, who would decieve anyone, but still Guroo Maharaj did daya right.
Still, all the bad karams WILL be paid for big time in afterlife, I think re-recieving amrit is not that person recieving forgiveness, but a chance for them to work for forgiveness.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 25, 2008 11:13AM

<< We have the sakhi of Sajjan Thag, who would decieve anyone, but still Guroo Maharaj did daya right. >>>
yes, guru sahib did daya and gave amrit de daat to sajjan thagg.(must be because of some pichle janam de ankurr)
But did sajjan break his amrit ?? or after breaking amrit, did sajjan thaggg deceive fellow sikhs by acting as an amritdharii??
anyways i feel i am wasting time on this thread. May be i have gone crazy and my views have become over-kattar,judgemental,taliban, hahahaha. May be i need some time alone away from the jathas, smagams, etc to redeem myself, to develop qualities like pyar, daya, forgiveness,compassion,mercy,clemency(cant remember more angreji words) hahahaha.
Satguru kirpa karan

THE END
OVER AND OUT

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: oothpathang (IP Logged)
Date: March 25, 2008 11:33AM

Guru Jee knows better than us. According to Sharia, a person would be stoned to death even if they admit to their mistake. We are not like Muslims who don't forgive if a person asks for `shamaa` (forgiveness) or admits their mistake. The Guru's heart is like the ocean and we are like mere drops of water compared to it. We are Naa'cheez (no one!). Who are we to pass judgment on who can be forgiven or not? that decision is up to Guru Jee in the roop of the Panj Pyaray. If the Bibi has been forgiven by the Panj Pyaray, then we need to respect that dicision and treat that bibi normally instead of acting like the spanish inquisition.

Mistakes can happen by anyone and anything. It is all Hukm of Vaheguru, nothing (no matter how bad) happens outside of the Hukm of Vaheguru.

Kukmeh undar sabh ko
Bahar Hukm na koe

The only person who has the right to be angry at the bibi is the husband. If the husband can forgive that bibi, then why is your tale burning with red peppers.

 



Re: giving amrit again to a bajjar kurehitiye
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: April 19, 2008 09:04PM

<<< Kukmeh undar sabh ko
Bahar Hukm na koe >>>>

Giving JUST PUNISHMENT is WITHIN THE HUKAM.
Khalsa Akaal Purakh ke fauj.
God wants justice to be delivered in this world and doesnt want "spiritual" leaders to fool people about stories of justice in the afterlife

 





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