yea dude.......lets stop the discussion about what is wrong with punjab???

firstly, what is going wrong with us ?? am i what i am supposed to be??

and if one is really concerned about it .......what u going to do about it?

if u feel so sorry about the drug situation try associating with some rehabilitation societies and do seva instead of discussing........

talk is cheap..........and about india.....india rising hmmmm...... a few call centers and offshored projects ......a few malls among all the slums.......

" punjab is falling behind while rest of india rises " such a casual of india.......rest of india u mean.........bihar,orissa,up,northeast,kashmir,rajasthan,maharashtra........etc. are all these in any better shape than punjab...........


but still if u are really so concerned ..go ahead do some seva instead of observing, analyzing and concluding coz thats so easy............maybe u dont have too much work at school.....

onkar1281 i am aware of what rss is doing but i don't believe in most the conspiracy's

onkar1281 to see your not brain washed into believing conspiracy's could you tell me
1.do rss bjp and hindutva groups like congress and vise virsa
2.who runs bollywood
3.do you believe in that hindutva groups put a gun to every youth in punjab and say do drugs

"Khalistan" is the ideology taken out by Sri JAgjit Singh Chouhan ji.

I also Supports khalistan but the way the war is being fought i dont support.

A "LAND-LOCK" country can never be a solution to our problems.

I think we should take the issue politically, and get our issues resolved thru this way.

Population is the main source in democracy. thus i always supports "the heads get counted" policy. make ourslf outnumbered Khalistan is ours.

inderjeet1012 actually iim part of a group thats trying to get the community out of trouble but are first job is exposing the khalistanis for the corrupt morans they are and getting them out of power and using that money in the gurdwara to do good things. We actually got a newspaper to question some of the gurdwaras and their funding well my buddy got the newspaper to question.

mandeep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inderjeet1012 actually iim part of a group thats
> trying to get the community out of trouble but are
> first job is exposing the khalistanis for the
> corrupt morans they are and getting them out of
> power and using that money in the gurdwara to do
> good things. We actually got a newspaper to
> question some of the gurdwaras and their funding
> well my buddy got the newspaper to question.

hwN mndIp
jdo q`k is`KwN dI AxK ijaUdIN hY !
jdo q`k is`K gulwmI mihsUs krdy hn!
jdo q`k is`K "rwj krygw Kwlsw" pVdy hn!
jdo q`k is`K Apxy gurU qy Brosw krdy hn!
jdo q`k is`K Apxy A`KwN,kMn Kuly r`Kxgy !
jdo q`k is`KwN nUM Kwlisqwn dw nwm cyqy hY!
jdo q`k is`K mnuKI brwbrI dy isDWq nUM mMndy hn!
jdo q`k is`K Awsw dI vwr pVdy hn!
hwN mndIp audoN q`k Kwlisqwn dy cwns vI hn,ies leI
audm vI huMdy rihxgy
BwvyN koeI srkwr jwN grup ies dw ivroD kry jwN BwvyN hmwieq

quhwfI "Bwrq mwqw dI BgqI" dI dwd dyxI bxdI hY BwvYN
ieh "gwfr ly kwmDyn kr pUjI" muqwbk qMuhwnU ieh BgqI
du`D dI QwN myNgxw hI dy skdI hY ikauik 'Bwrq dyS' rUpI gwN
dy Qx hI nhI hn, ies dI syvw ivrQI hY[ijnw isKw ny kIqI
auh hux q`k pCqw rhy hn qusI BI soco jI.......

CHANCES OF KHALISTAN IS VERY BLEAK.. .. SIKHS DONT WANT A LANDLOCK COUNTRY

khalistan is not a solution, it is rather thn solving our problems we are creating newer onces.

India is democratic country. sikhs are wealthy enough to feed 3-4 children. Sri Guru Govind Singh ji was having 4 sons. i think we shld all must have at least 4 children. Make ur population strong and live in peace.

RELIGION WILL ULTIMATELY GROW and PROSPER

I agree with Sidhu Jee. Sikhs are the wealthies people in India. The average Sikh family is rich enough to have 3-4 children, and as Sidhu.hcl mentioned Guru Gobind Singh Jee had 4 children then why is it that we Sikhs always have on average of only 2 children?

If we had the kind of birth rate our grand perent's generation had, then we would have been the mojority in Punjab, Haryana, Himachal, Chandigarh combined. Everyone in India (except for the Parsis) has a higher birth rate than the Sikhs.

RAJ BINA NAHIN DHARAM CHALLEE HAI, DHARAM BINA SAB DALLE MALLEE HAIN

KO KISE KO RAJ NA DEHAI, JO LEHAI NIJ BALL SE LEHAI

KOOR RAJA KOOR PARRJA KOOR SAB SANSAAR

Im very agree with oothpathang.

The problem sikhism is facing nowadays is The population of elder people are almost 65% of total no of sikhs. and new generation is just 35% of the total it includes our male and female both.

Earlier people wre having 7-8 average children. "and i dont think they wre not feeded well" they are genetically and phyiscally more strong thn the new generation. thus theory of staying healthy and in nutrition FAILS.

Why shld we only follow the national policy of having 1-2 children??? we are already less in no.!!!
thre is no following of national policy in UP, Delhi, BIHAR, JHARKHAND,Etc
The growth india is taking nowdays is in these states only. Population is no longer a curse for thm. New business oppourtunities are being developed in these states only. they are having more political presence also. more MLAs More MPs.
On the other hand sikhs dont have representative in politics, Business in punjab is ruined. No jobs

Once the current baby boom generation of Sikhs dies in Punjab, then our population will decrease by almost half because for the last 40 years, Sikhs don`t have enough children while all other communities in India have a great many children. I remember during the 80`s there was even a HukmNama from the Akal Takht encouraging Sikhs to have a minimum of 5 childrem because they foresaw how in the future our numbers will shrink while all others are increasing. We should atleast keep up the pace.

having more kids isn't the problem, education is falling less and less youth are willing to go to school, to many sikhs rely on their farm land which isn't good enough cause its broken in half or broken into 3 peaces each generation, sikhs need to start moving away from farming, we got to stop living in 70's and start living in today which is the information age, gujarate is booming ppl are seeing to it they get their children educated their attracting foriegn investment and its not about population who gets the investments, buisnesses from the west want educated well skilled workers. With half of punjab's youth on drugs theirs a bigger problem then not having enought kids, for me personally and in an article i posted on another thread about drug addictions the cause of drug addictions is cause parants are spoiling their kids way to much, no work and lots of money=trouble.

I agree with you mandeep that education is important, but education isn't the only factor. In India there is no community that is more educated or wealthier than the Parsi community, yet their numbers are dwindling to the point of future extinction. Sikhs are following a similar patern to the Parsis of not having enough children. Like the Parsis, our birth rate has a negative growth rate as opposed to the Hindus, Muslims, Christians in India who have a positive growth rate. Education is important, but if example of Parsis is to be seen, then education isn't exactly going to increase our numbers, it's higher birth rate and parchar that's going to do the trick.

let are birth rates drop, alot of family's cant afford more, kids are expensive, we need to work on educationg the ppl we have today on sikhi, cause in a generation or two 90% of the sikhs arn't going to have a clue about their religion or history.

yogi bajan alone inspried thousands of americans who probably didn't even know what sikhism was to become sikhs, now if more ppl are educated on sikhi and history, they'll most likely inspire thousands or even millions of more into sikhi, if one man can inspire thousands imagine how many ppl thousands of sikhs can inspire

Mandeep, if that is the case then we need to differenciate between the type of education you are talking about. If you are talking about dharmic training/education, then I agree with you it is needed to increase our numbers. But other (worldly)education which although is crucial to survive in this world for Rozi Roti, but as far as Dharm is concearned Dhunyavi education isn't going to increase our numbers, parsis being an example of this.

In a democracy, numbers matter more than money. Sikhs have money, but don't have the numbers nor the high birth rate that other communities in India have. Once our baby boom generation dies out, Sikhs will by numerically insignificant in India.

I don't know what you are talking about when you say kids are expensive. That maybe the case in the west, but in India it's a whole different story, which is why everyone in India(except Sikhs and Parsis) are have so many children.

i dont think school?? and farmland ?? is anyhow integrated to sikhism. I know they are important but not necessary.

Bihari's are the poorest people in India (without farmland and money) the maximum no of IAS and IIT and IIMs are from bihar and UP.

Mandeep i think "need" is the factor tht turns ur life and success. Now see Baniyas (hinduz in Punjab) they hold some 100sq feet shop in Cities and farmers having hundreds of acres of land can be eaisly seen taking loans from thm.

I dont think having more population is curse, rather its boon for the community, sikhism and for ourslf also.

Mandeep i agree with u tht S. Bhajan Singh Yogi ji turned many americans to sikhism. He was a great speaker and encyclopedia of religion and bhajan. i dont think we have enough leaders with similar capabilities.

Guru Govind Singh ji had clearly stated ' tum ko tumara khoob humko humara khoob"

I Dont take side of converting others into sikhism , I will prefer keeping Those who are already in sikhism into sikhism first.
It is hard to tell a laymen about sikhism. But it is easy to tell those who alredy follow sikhism.

famous biologist Charles Darwin gave principle of "survival of the fittest"
even if u have 7 children every one will run for his existtance.
presently sikhs have 1-2 children that dont carry any survival targets. and thus they are in ease enough coz their parents have enough for thm. n thus thy also dont study and work hard

actually one reason especially poor ppl have so many children is cause lack of education on birth control and protection, in the poorest states you have the highest birth rates and in the richest states you have the lowest

But even if sikhs don't have more baby's we can still be a power house in india, look at the influence jews have in america.

Did guru gobind singh ji not say 1 sikh = 125000 men

My view of education is educate the youth on sikhi and sikh history, and also education you recieve in schools to help punjab move forward,

Also the issue isn't parants don't have enough kids is why they don't work hard enough cause parants have more then enough to give them, cause ive seen rich successfull ppl who have made their kids get jobs and deliver paper to help them develop work ethics, put them into sports and other activity's to teach them goal setting hard work time management and leadership.

Problem right now is not population
problem right now is what is the sikh community going to look like in 30 years world wide, at the rate were going at and many of you are probably going to disagree but it feels like this
half the sikh population will live uppermiddle class and upper class
other half the sikh population will live in poverty or lower middle class

half the sikh community will be extremely successfull and hardworking
other half will fall pray to drugs alchole and other social probs

majority of sikh youth from lower middle class or lower class family's will lack knowledge on sikhism/ example not be able to name our gurus and think punjabi culture is what the sikh religion is

majority of the sikh youth from upper middle class and upper class will lack knowledge on sikhism/ once again exmple would be they will not know the names of our ten gurus or basics of sikhism and will think oh sikhism and punjabi culture are the same thing.


Also don't forget the more and more lack of morals we see in our community, how many more girls from the community do we need to see getting drunk friday nights wearing mini skirts, and how many more guys from our community do we need to see who are getting drunk and high till we wake up and address these issues.

if half the youth in punjab are hooked on drugs today, what will the punjab be like in 30 years.

In the west like i said half our community will prosper and the other half will live on welfare and on the streets falling pray to narcotics and nusha

80-90% of the community will not have much knowledge on sikhi and sikh history

how much more damage do we have to see happen to us before we decide to wake up and work as a community to fix them.

Mandeep ur deep concerns abt the increasing gap inbetween the community financially is valuable . now days sikh polulation is getting polarised and got divided into catagories or segments some of em are based on upper middle, middle or lower middle level others are caste oriented.

Frnd this thing happens into every religion and for sikhs i think Guruji clearly indicated tht any type of caste and status system is not applicable. Everyone can access to the religion and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. In odder to remove caste system Guruji had initialted LANGER , CHRAN GANGA , SAROVARs, etc also Guruji once called his (low caste) sikh as ""rangrete Guru ke bete""

Other concerns of education and youth hooking to drugs ??
Drug problem persists in punjab even in the days of maharaja ranjit singh and before(malwa was the notorious region famous for hukka,bidi). punjabi'z are workolic in nature and even if some takes nasha to relax their musles whts bad? R tHEY THE MAJOR CONCERN FOR THE COMMUNITY?? this can be handled anytime.

lack of knowledge abt sikhism (is no more persistant) people nowdays are becoming more religious and u see everytime u open a channel u will see BABA SANT SINGH MASKIN ji, BABA PINDER PAL SINGH Ji, BABA THIDriyan VALA, Babaji from ludhiana (i forget his name). nowdays mediums of knowing abt religion had increased. further in coming years u will see drastic chnge. dont u see people have became more arguing ??

Futher jews is USA holds a tag of ENGANGERED SPEcies (not to be hurt). I would recommened every sikh to have at least 4 children. so tht the better future for sikhism can be eaisly achieved.