If there are 84 million lifeforms which we as humans go through then why are some animals either extinct or on the verge of extinction?

I have thought about this and have following thoughts on this subject:

1) Species don't equal joonees. Within human there can be many life-forms e.g., the life of a Vesva (prostitute) has been considered a jooni as per Bhagat Trilochan jee's shabad (Ree Baayee, Gobind Naam matt Veesrai).

2) 8.4 million life forms are listed but it does not say that all 8.4 million life forms stay active at all times. I have a feeling that some life-forms stay dormant for some time and as per the will of Vaheguru, become active at the time desired by Vaheguru jee. Nothing becomes extinct from this world it just becomes dormant or goes out of our site but nothing is lost or becomes extinct.

Kulbir Singh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2008 11:34AM by admin.

I think new life forms are always evolving, so if one goes extinct another will be created. (Reincarnation!)

And who says they all have to be here on earth? One day perhaps most species on earth might be extinct, that doesnt mean all life in the universe is, guru sahib created a vast unexplainable and uncountable universe.

i have a question to did we go through 8.4 million reincarnations before becomming human, and what about ppl born into other religions would they have to go through another rebirth even someone like mother teresa.

"why are some animals either extinct or on the verge of extinction?"

Yonis (Jooness is distortion) are eternal.May be in their gross form they are extinct but exist in subtle form and may manifest itself again at suitable moment.

ਆਪੇ ਜੰਤ ਉਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥
He Himself created the creatures, and He Himself supports them.

ਆਪੇ ਸੂਖਮੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਆਪੇ ਪਾਸਾਰੁ ॥
He Himself is seen to be subtle, and He Himself is obvious.

ਆਪਹਿ ਸੂਖਮ ਆਪਹਿ ਅਸਥੂਲਾ ॥
He Himself is subtle and etheric; He Himself is manifest and obvious.

are the 8.4 million life forms constrained to planet earth or are they inclusive of the entire universe?

The 8.4million count is not a gurmat count. It is a old Hindu number.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Guru Piyare Guru Savaray Bhai RSinghNY jio,

"The 8.4million count is not a gurmat count. It is a old Hindu number."

We think aap jee are misinformed. See what Bhai Sahib Bhai Gurdass jee say about this count in Tuks from different vaars:

1) ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥੨॥…

2) ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਤਮੁ ਜਨਮ ਸੁ ਮਾਣਸਿ ਦੇਹੀ॥…

3) ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੂਨਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਤਮ ਮਾਣਸ ਜੂਨਿ ਭਲੇਰੇ॥…

4) ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਵਿਛੁੜੇ ਵਡ ਪਰਵਾਰਾ॥
ਜੰਮਣੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਮਰਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਭਵਜਲ ਪੂਰ ਭਰਾਇ ਹਜਾਰਾ॥
ਮਾਣਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਾਰਾ ॥੫॥
and finally Jagat Jot Dhan Dhan sri Guru Granth Sahib ji say:

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ਚਵਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਭ ਹੂ ਕਉ ਤਦ ਕਾ ॥ (Panna ੧੪੦੩)
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We hope that helps clearing out this doubt. Bhul Chook di khima.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

RSinghNY ji,

Gurbani says there are 8.4 million joons, hence it is Gurmat.

Gurfateh

Das thinks that Gurbani uses the Hindu term to represent the whole spicies of life form.(das may sound like a missionary over here ut he agrees to them on this) but as a Nihung das has a question.When Akal is in all.What matters how many more new spices will
Akal make or how many old will Akal make end.Numbers or life form can change with will of Akal.As per Dasham Granth Sahib Ji,there were only few demigods at one point of time.number changed.Humans came.One day we all will be one with Akal as Akal with take all manifestation back into prmal manifestation of sefl.Akal Bless.

Guru Piayario Jio,
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

Guru Ji instructs us...Gobind Milan kee eh teri bareeah...
and at many many places Guru Ji stresses that THIS HUMAN BIRTH is priceless...not a chance to be MISSED..or wasted...FOOTEG GHAR JION PAANEE..water elaking out form a broken pot..the CLOCK is ticking away...

NAAM JAAPP every second....janm saflah hoveh....
Being BORN in a GURSIKH Family, naam sanskraan in the August Presence of Etrnal Shabad Guru Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guru Granth JI Sahib Ji maharaaj...is like being born with a Golden spoon in ones mouth..on the Highway to Sachkhand../Akal purakh..
Its a saying..the wise eat the fruits..the foolish count the trees..
Bhagt Kabir Ji says..the Wise drink Milk/eat the Makhaan..the ordinary ones.. drink the lassee/WHEY Water...

WHY waste time..counting the joons...84 lakh or not ?? exactly half 42 lakhs in water or not ?? Does it matter IF i know exactly How MANY KESH i have on my head or that the Holy pavittar KESH are a gift form Guru ji and I must love them with all my heart ?? Do i count them first ??..do i satisfy myself first as to ?????

So many "Examples" from old Hindu Mythology/vedas/sastras/kitabsetc etc... but what i am most INTERESTED in is what Is GURU JIS MESSAGE..the NICHORR..the GURMATT.
The GURMATT in this case is..
1. Mnaukha janam is precious..to be used for Naam japp and Merger with Akal purakh. The clock is ticking..backward counting begins the moment we make our first JAIKARA at BIRTH... Boleh So Nihaal...eat the FRUITS of Naam japp...needless time wasting counting joons...each second is precious...

Gyani jarnail Singh

Good responses Veer Vijaydeep Singh Ji and Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji.

People are to busy looking at the finger which is pointing to the object in the sky rather than looking directly at the object of veneration, the moon.

This seems to be becoming an obsession today, people getting stuck so obsessed by the explanotary detail that they forget to take notice of the point/objective.

Those are good answers and we can say those to each other(sikhs) and we will accept them. It is similar to how Bhai Kulbir Singh have also said in the past that we shouldn't dwell on some of these topics.

But you have to have something if you want to spread out and are talking to non sikhs and atheists alike. You cannot really say not to talk about it to those peoples.

Also my comment to the 8.4m joons. I was trying to say that that number existed before Sikhism.

Folks since when has lakh become a million? I think 84 lakh joons are meant to be viewed as broad categories, just in the sea there are more than 84 lakh. E.g. insects might be a broad high level category, types of vegetation might be another, etc.

Dhan Guru Nanak

Lakh is 100,000.

The thread should read 8.4m.

This thread is still a complete waste of time - Gurbani is not a science manual as neophyte and new age Sikhs like to make out.

Churasi Lakh is not an original 'Sikh' philophy - it is refered to in Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Jain scriptures etc.

Guru Sahiban may have refered to this in a metophoric or traditonal sense, the same way that Semetic angels/heaven and hell have been refered to.

Either way the point is to tell us that the human life is precious and not to waste it on pointless pursuits like trying to decipher Snatan scientific concepts. They are simply a commonly understood means of delivering the divine message - it's the message that we should identify and do vichaar on.

1 lakh - 100,000
10 lakh - 1,000,000

bhai kulbir singh ji and other giani sikh sahibaan ji i have one query, i too strongly believe that thre are 84lakh species that God had created.

now we believe human as one specie, now we know that thre are lakhs of living cells inside human..... how can we believe all dont have souls inside??

secondly as soon as man dies howcome his all lakhs of cells die simultaneously. do they share a common soul?????

veerji very seriously im looking for answer.

whn we are counting 84lAKH joonies do all different cell type creatures also counted.????