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Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: Ekta Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 25, 2007 07:48AM

[damdamitaksaal.net]

THE LAST TIME WHEN SANT GIANI GURBACHAN SINGH JI KHALSA BHINDRANWALE MET BHAI SAHIB BHAI RANDHIR SINGH

On 19th February 1960, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale met Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh in Ludhiana at Bhai Sahib’s residence. They did vichaar on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s Manglan.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh was ill at the time. Sant Giani Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa was also present and other members of the jatha.

They started vichaar on Gurbani. Sant Ji said to Bhai Sahib that the anand Bhai Sahib get’s from doing simran, and the avasta they’ve got, that they have ras. After hearing those words of Sant Ji, Bhai Sahib got very emotional. Bhai Sahib then replied by saying that Sant Ji was saying all those things to him in nimrata, and that the truth was that Sant Ji is the Jathedar (Mukhi) of Kalgidhar Paatshah’s Taksal and that they have Brahm Vidiya and that they are a Mahapurakh. Bhai Sahib then told Sant Ji that they have read their antreev meanings of Raag Mala, the ones that you can’t find anywhere in any teeka’s. Then Bhai Sahib did vichaar and agreed that Raag Mala is Gurbani and said that “Bani Agam Hai, Sikh Bhulanhar, Teh Guru Bakhshanhar Hai.” Also Bhai Sahib said that Sant Ji had Apaar Kirpa.

This was the last time Sant Ji and Bhai Sahib met. After the vichaar ended, Sant Ji and the jatha had something to eat and drink and then Sant Ji and Bhai Sahib said fateh to one another and then Sant Ji left.

After that, the next day, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale went to Rara Sahib to attend a meeting which included other Mahapurakh’s, Sant Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib Wale, Sant Giani Kirpal Singh Ji Sato Gali Wale, Giani Niranjan Singh Patiala Wale, and Giani Arjun Singh Ji Muni. After this meeting another two-four other meetings happened. These Mahapurakh’s then had meetings with the main Shromani committee members and other vidvaan’s and made the final decision regarding the Manglan.

(Whats the sangats view on this story and if bhai sahib admited raag mala was baani then why did'nt he tell rest of the jatha?)

 



Article on Taksaals latest site
Posted by: khaalsaa (IP Logged)
Date: December 25, 2007 02:52PM

So much so for the 'new offical site' of Taksaal. We all know the stand of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee on Raag Maalaa and most are aware of the very interesting lineage of Taksaal. I fail to see the motive behind articles such as the one below. When will such trash stop being cirulated by internet Taksaali's who seem to make up such amusing and stories to support their agendas? Fairytale or dream like stories that are being circulated are nothing more than laughable. First you have the story of Guru Sahib slapping a Sikh for reading Gurbani incorrectly, then one of raags crying for acceptance hence Raagmaala (im not too bothered to remember these stories correctly) and now you have more cheap shots such as this crazy 'account' of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee 'accepting' Raagmaalaa at meeting with Gyanee Gurbachan Singh Jee. Sharam karo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Last time Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh and Bhai Sahib Bhai Randir Singh met
THE LAST TIME WHEN SANT GIANI GURBACHAN SINGH JI KHALSA BHINDRANWALE MET BHAI SAHIB BHAI RANDHIR SINGH

On 19th February 1960, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale met Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh in Ludhiana at Bhai Sahib’s residence. They did vichaar on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s Manglan.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh was ill at the time. Sant Giani Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa was also present and other members of the jatha.

They started vichaar on Gurbani. Sant Ji said to Bhai Sahib that the anand Bhai Sahib get’s from doing simran, and the avasta they’ve got, that they have ras. After hearing those words of Sant Ji, Bhai Sahib got very emotional. Bhai Sahib then replied by saying that Sant Ji was saying all those things to him in nimrata, and that the truth was that Sant Ji is the Jathedar (Mukhi) of Kalgidhar Paatshah’s Taksal and that they have Brahm Vidiya and that they are a Mahapurakh. Bhai Sahib then told Sant Ji that they have read their antreev meanings of Raag Mala, the ones that you can’t find anywhere in any teeka’s. Then Bhai Sahib did vichaar and agreed that Raag Mala is Gurbani and said that “Bani Agam Hai, Sikh Bhulanhar, Teh Guru Bakhshanhar Hai.” Also Bhai Sahib said that Sant Ji had Apaar Kirpa.

This was the last time Sant Ji and Bhai Sahib met. After the vichaar ended, Sant Ji and the jatha had something to eat and drink and then Sant Ji and Bhai Sahib said fateh to one another and then Sant Ji left.

After that, the next day, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale went to Rara Sahib to attend a meeting which included other Mahapurakh’s, Sant Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib Wale, Sant Giani Kirpal Singh Ji Sato Gali Wale, Giani Niranjan Singh Patiala Wale, and Giani Arjun Singh Ji Muni. After this meeting another two-four other meetings happened. These Mahapurakh’s then had meetings with the main Shromani committee members and other vidvaan’s and made the final decision regarding the Manglan.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[damdamitaksaal.net]

 



Re: Article on Taksaals latest site
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: December 25, 2007 09:50PM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Khalsa jio,

Khalsaspirit.com strongly believes as you mentioned the fake stories/sakhis created by this splinter group from Bhindra Taksal are laughable. This splinter group Mehta Taksal(which is now further divided to Sangranva Taksal) who runs above websites Damdamitaksal.com/.org/.net has nothing else just to split the panth further with their smartness (Developers of interesting fake stories). This splinter group is so desperate to prove Raagmala as Gurbani that no matter what fake story they have to develop they do it and this Bhai Sahib's story has no exception. This story is one of the series of their own fake stories of their lineage to Guru Sahib.
According to Giani Gurbachan Singh Jee the Taksal lineage is to Bhai Mani Singh Jee but this splinter group did not like that lineage and linked themselves to Baba Deep Singh Jee. After 1984 for 21 years how this group was kept saying Baba Jarnail Singh Jee is not Shaheed but finally had to accept the truth and now this group is blaming Baba Thakur Singh Jee for this lie. On the other hand this group claim Baba Thakur Singh Jee as a Brahamgiani. Whole panth knows truth about this group.

Those two examples are good enough to know the state of their mind but one thing is very clear now that this group very vividly knows Raagmala is not Gurbani yet do not want to accept it. The strange thing is Giani Mohan Singh Jee (the approved successor) of Bhindra Taksal never made comments about Raagmala as this splinter group does.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Article on Taksaals latest site
Posted by: khalistan_zindabaad (IP Logged)
Date: December 26, 2007 05:47AM

There must be some truth in the sakhi for them to put it up. . .

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 26, 2007 10:57AM

Following is from an old post:


It’s totally absurd to think that Bhai Sahib admitted to Raagmala being baani in secret but did not admit it in front of Singhs out of the fear that they will lose faith in him.

It is further ludicrous to imagine that Bhai Sahib got impressed with the deep meanings of Raagmala that Sant Gurbachan Singh jee told Bhai Sahib. I have read these meanings and they absolutely make no sense and are totally meaningless. Bhai Sahib who was a master of Gurbani Viyakaran, could have not got impressed with these meanings since they are against Grammar and even simple human logic.

Bhai Sahib would have never felt ashamed if he had realised his mistake of not reading Raagmala all his life. Bhai Sahib was a man enough to admit his mistake. The fact of the matter is that such conversation never took place between Sant jee and Bhai Sahib. Sant jee and Bhai Sahib respected each other despite this minor difference.

During the times of Bhai Sahib, he was not the most prominent opponents of Raagmala. At that time Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha and Bhai Shamsher Singh Ashok were leading the movement against Raagmala. Who in Panth could have dared to talk in front of Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha? Ordinary so called gyanis used to tremble before him. Pandit jee was an ocean of knowledge and many scholars of that time had been his students at some point in life. If Sant Gurbachan Singh had to resolve to issue of Raagmala, he would have gone to convince Pandit jee and his group of scholars and not Bhai Sahib who was not leading the movement against Raagmala. Once Sant Amir Singh of Taksal tried but lost miserably to Pandit jee.

Rumours like this one are lurking within Taksal for long time. Another one of the rumour is that during his end days, Bhai Sahib was suffering a lot and requested Sant Gurbachan Singh to save him. Sant jee asked him to admit his mistake of Raagmala and only then he was released from the suffering. Such a bogus story this is. Total nonsense. Dr Tarlochan Singh was there during the last moments of Bhai Sahib and he has written how peaceful Bhai Sahib was. He was in total bliss and had no suffering.

Another absurd story about Bhai Sahib is that when Bhai Sahib tried to enter Sach Khand after passing away, doors were shut on him because he did not read Raagmala. These jokers who make up these stories don’t know that Bhai Sahib was a resident of Sach Khand right while living. Who could have denied him Sach Khand after leaving this body?

Don’t believe such stories. Bhai Sahib stayed in Chardi Kala till his last days on this planet and he never admitted Raagmala to be baani.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: Death (IP Logged)
Date: December 26, 2007 11:22AM

completely agree with kulbir singh ji.

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: NiranjanSingh (IP Logged)
Date: December 26, 2007 06:49PM

Actually, the entire site is kind of a joke. Despite 23 years after '84 this group continues to believe Sant Jarnail Singh is still alive and hiding out someplace. First Pakistan, then China, Russia, who know where now. That alone should explain the mentality of these people.

Afters 23 years they continue this fairy tale lie, and are not even willing to call yodha Sant Jarnail Singh a Shaheed. Do you think they really feel any guilt when lying about Bhai Randhir Singh Ji?

Regardless, this site looks like the work of some illiterate teenagers. There are so many errors, misspellings and typos, it is not even funny.

Take a look at their interpretation of "Mool Mantar", each word has multiple meanings, many contradicting each other.
[damdamitaksaal.net]

For example they interpret the word AKAL as :

(A) Vishnu, (Ka) Brahma, (La) Lord Shiv

(Typical for Nirmala/Sanatan oriented samperdayas)

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: khalistan_zindabaad (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2007 07:50AM

To correct khalsa spirit,

1) sant gurbachan singh clearly states that the taksal is from guru gobind singh jee and baba deep singh jee.

2) i think your confused with these splinter groups, you make me laugh with the statement as half of what you said is utter nonsence

3) Baba thakur singh for all his life said sant jee wasnt shaheed so alot of gursikh stand with this bachan

4) Baba mohan singh clearly mentions about raagmala and states it is bani in his santhia which has been relaesed on gurmatveechar.com and cusses those who dont beleive in it.

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2007 08:36AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Niranjan Singh jio,

"Regardless, this site looks like the work of some illiterate teenagers"

We would further say that, not just this website the whole game show is the work of illiterates and one thing is crystal clear who ever fabricated these stories ਉਸਨੇ ਅਸਿੱਧੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਚ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਈ ਰਣਧੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਤੱਤ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਲੌਹਾ ਮੰਨ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ। ਹੁਣ ਭਾਂਵੇ ਮੂੰਹੋ ਕਹਿਣ ਜਾਂ ਨਾ ਕਹਿਣ।

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: sikhstar (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2007 10:28AM

Thank you for the link Gursikho, Its a really inspirational website.

I personally dont doubt that the stories above are true however I think there needs to be more in depth information available on its basis and i think if you spot mistakes in the website, you should do the seva of telling the guys who run it that it is wrong so they may correct it. No one or no website is perfect so lets work together to spread Gurbani world wide.

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2007 12:50PM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Zindabad jio,

"1) sant gurbachan singh clearly states that the taksal is from guru gobind singh jee and baba deep singh jee."

Bring the evidence. Not a link to some flashy websites.

"2) i think your confused with these splinter groups, you make me laugh with the statement as half of what you said is utter nonsence."

We are crytal clear about this splitter group and we have no control if you laugh or beep.

"3) Baba thakur singh for all his life said sant jee wasnt shaheed so alot of gursikh stand with this bachan"

Here you go, now you are confused about spilitter group who now declared him shaheed too.

"4) Baba mohan singh clearly mentions about raagmala and states it is bani in his santhia which has been relaesed on gurmatveechar.com and cusses those who dont beleive in it."

You misunderstood. This is childish thing for anyone to assume that Baba Mohan Singh would say some thing which will be agianst what they were taught but what we meant is if you read again "The strange thing is Giani Mohan Singh Jee (the approved successor) of Bhindra Taksal never made comments about Raagmala as this splinter group does"
Means the approved successor of Bhindra Taksal never made those comments (fake stories of Bhai Sahib & Raag mala) as this splitter group does. Is that clear enough.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: malton (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2007 02:27PM

The Damdami Taksal has had rich tradition, but many believe they fell into disarray after 1984 because of lack of true leadership. Baba Takhur Singh was given the 'sevadar' title, which resulted in constant jockeying for position for the leadership before he passed - which led to inner division.

As an organization for the betterment of the panth, many felt felt the taksal was involving itself in ritualistic and meaningless battles, rather then fighting the growing radasuomi problem, promoting gurbani, or countering the countless sardars cutting their hair.

It seems there have been many stories that have no basis, ie the randhir singh and raag mala story, and the story that sant ji will be brought back hand in hand by baba takhur singh - which was in turn supposed to set off world war 3. There was also rumours started that sant ji was hiding our in pakistan or california, and sangat was encouraged not to lose faith. Stories like this only lessened the credibility of the taksal, and the Dhumma/Raam Singh incident further tainted taksals image.

We are One panth, stories that are made up to prove a point dont do anyone any good. Examples that dont have any gurbani backing, and are still insisted as truth, dont do anyone good, ie 'dont worry everything will be ok when sant ji comes back' or 'it has to be true because babaji/santji were brahm gianis'.

We must learn to respect our great sikhs, but not knock others down only to raise them on a pedestal.The only suggestion is to have pyar with gurbani and guru, and to not believe everything we here as true.

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: SENGH (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2007 05:00PM

Vaheguru je ka khalsa Vaheguru je ke fateh

i havent bothered reading your topic as i dont understand the point of it!!!
you know by posting this kind of topic it is just going to cause an argument!!! if you REALLY want to know whether Raagmala is bani or not go ask the panj payare!!!

sorry for the little rant

Vaheguru je ka khalsa Vaheguru je ke fateh!

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: yes (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2007 05:51PM

This is from the ragmala section of www.damdamitaksaal.net website:

"In 1945 the SGPC set up a sub-committee to investigate whether Ragmala is included in the original Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Saroop that was compiled by Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee. The following is from their:

“We can most definitely say that nobody other than Bhai Gurdas Jee, who was the scribe, included Ragmala in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Ragmala is an ang of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.”

They also stated that they the ink, paper and handwriting of Ragmala was consistent with the rest of the saroop."

Some arguments made on the site do make sense and have basis but can someone please explain the above point?

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: baba jee bachan (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 05:29AM

message FAO: Khalsaspirit

i think u have got some deep personal issues. everyone in this world is different, therefore is expected to have slightly different views. however we all share the same light..... so on them grounds i really believe you need to understand there is a way to speak to people and about people. u call urself khalsa spirit but ur not representing the views and way of guru gobind singh jee.

gurfateh.

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: Manmat (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 11:20AM

vjkk vjkf

gursikho , what is the point of all this, we are just wasting our time and missing out on earning laha of naam/banee/seva

everyone stick what they believe end of, this is a joke

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: baba amarjeet singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 11:23AM

the answer to the question "did bhai sahib admit raagmala was gurbani" is, no.
whoever says otherwise is lying.

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: baba jee bachan (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 01:04PM

the answer to the question "did bhai sahib admit raagmala was gurbani" is, no.
whoever says otherwise is lying.....................



you wasn't there so u can answer that question.

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: baba amarjeet singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 29, 2007 04:42AM

by that logic u werent there when hitler was around
so hitler could have been a great kind, generous man right?

 



Re: Did Bhai Sahib admit raag mala was bani??
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 29, 2007 06:01AM

vaheguroojeekakhalsa,vaheguroojeefateh!

'baba jee bachan'

if i stated on the ddt site that bhai sahib mentioned on his 'death-bed' that he was a big fan of michael jackson and amarjeet singh denied this, would you still respond by saying: "you wasn't there so u can[t] answer that question".

no - because my proposition would be so contrary to bhai sahib as he was known as to render it absurd...just like it is absurd to say he 'died painfully' or he 'changed his mind about raagmala but kept it gupt'. ALL the evidence suggests otherwise whilst, wait for it, those who make these frankly pathetic and immature claims have presented NO evidence.

this is just the latest example of how low some self-proclaimed or otherwise official 'taksalees' will go. these ppl need to grow-up.

jatha and taksaal need to recognise their many commonalities and overlook their very few differences if they are to truly act in the best interests of the panth.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 
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