ਚੁਕਾਰਅਜ਼ਹਮਹਹੀਲਤੇਦਰਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ॥ਹਲਾਲਅਸਤਬੁਰਦਨਬਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰਦਸਤ॥੨੨॥ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥)

Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai


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Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: January 18, 2008 06:18PM

mandeep -

At the same time that the Golden Temple was being attacked, some seventy other gurdwaras (Sikhs temples) were also being attacked. As stated in Politics of Genocides: "While the Darbar Sahib was under attack, other Army units were battling their way into 74 other gurdwaras in Punjab."
-- [library.thinkquest.org]

The army had isolated and stormed 42 other main Gurdwaras throughout Punjab. In the absence of a thorough investigation, it is difficult to estimate the casualties, but it is known that the operation against many Gurdwaras became bloody.

The White Paper says that "terrorists at Moga and Muktsar offered a fair amount of resistance." Tiwana Commission of Inquiry, appointed by the Akali State government elected two years later to investigate some complaints of torture in army custody, said that 257 persons were shot down during the storming of the Dukhniwaran Gurdwara at Patiala. In the absence of an independent and comprehensive inquiry, the total figures of casualties and arrests during the army operation in Punjab shall never be known. The storming of the Temple was followed up with a mopping up operation in Punjab’s countryside, code named Operation Woodrose, which resulted in thousands of young Sikhs getting picked up. The government’s White Paper claims that a total of 4,712 were apprehended
-- [allaboutsikhs.com]

the white paper referred to is the GOVERNMENT's own white paper on bluestar - you can read it online.

Elsewhere across Punjab hundreds of Sikhs were killed in the army operation at the same time which saw 42 Gurdwaras raided at the same time as the Golden Temple, including high casualties at Moga, Mukatsar, Faridkot, Patiala, Ropar and Chowk Mehta.
-- [www.sikhs.org]


i suggest you do a bit more reading - if you want a comprehensive english reading list, please ask. i do however understand your points about there being many inaccurate descriptions of what happened but i think it is fair to say that during bluestar other gurdwaras across punjab were also attacked. the government's own white paper admits this.

indira gandhi attacked amritsar because she wanted to unify the majority hindu vote in states such as UP and Bihar - there was an upcoming election. there was also a serious risk that the sikhs would rally behind sant ji and start a full scale rebellion. many sikhs were in the army or ex army. punjab had the makings of a strong rebel army. guns were accessible from pakistan. dangerous situation.

you need to ask yourself this question and provide a response - when the singhs killed indira, 3000 sikhs in delhi alone were killed by hindu/congress mob;

but when rajiv was killed by a hindu tamil tiger, how many hindu/tamils were killed?

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: January 18, 2008 06:25PM

why did the indian army not do a operation blackthunder (1988) to the militants in 1984?

surely there were other ways to get them out?

why chose shaheedi day of guru arjan dev ji to attack?

ask yourself these questions mandeep.

it is arguable that sant ji was used by the government in their dirty politics game but sant ji did nothing wrong by fortifying the golden temple. how many times has the golden temple and akal takht been destroyed in the past? several times. amritsar being used as a battleground is nothing new. ever heard of baba deep singh? baba gurbaksh singh? where did they die and fight? who were they fighting?

if you know about our history you wouldnt be asking silly questions.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: January 18, 2008 06:32PM

i would refer you to operation woodrose

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: January 19, 2008 04:59PM

i said it already dashmesh regiment that india's government wanted to teach the sikhs a lesson and they used bhindranwale to do so. But once again could you name me 3 gurdwaras cause you said 70 were attacked could you name 3 other gurdwaras that were attacked during operation bluestar.

Reason operation bluestar wasn't conducted like operation blackthunder were they cut the food and water and all that stuff and made the militants surrender without using a bullet was cause india wanted to teach sikhs a lesson, and fact that bhindranwale was inside india's govt used bhindranwale as an excuse to attack by calling him a terrorist, now if he wasn't inside harmandar sahib their would be NO OPERATION BLUESTAR, if so tell me what would indira gandhi say to explain her govt attacking for no reason, remember congress was smart thats why all of today's khalistanis hide in canada america england pakistan, the same pakistan that killed over half a million sikhs in 47. I give credit to the khalistanis who died fighting for the rights of the sikhs and to get justice for inocent sikhs who suffered. But not the khalistanis who killed inocent like talwinder parmar who cried like a baby in front of kps gill according to canadian intillegence reports and media, or bhindranwale nephew who created sikh youth federation and worked for india's government at same time.

Did india's government plan on attacking harmandar sahib for no reason even if their were no militants inside the harmandar sahib, were they going to go in their and just start killing inocent ppl? if your answer is yes how would indira gandhi explain the attack to 10-15% of the indian army that consisted of sikhs and sikhs across the country and how would she explained herself in front of the world when she would look like hitler.

If bhindranwale went underground harmandar sahib wouldn't of bin attacked so he was wrong in fortifying the golden temple. Dude don't twist history around to justify bhindranwale, when the harmandar sahib was destroyed in the past by afghans and so on and amritsar was turned into a battle field was when the muslims would attack amritsar and harmandar sahib for no reason, the sikhs who fought and died in harmandar sahib back in the 18th and 17th century died protecting the harmandar sahib when it was being attacked for no reason accept for trying to destroy sikhs. If they didn't go to defend the harmandar sahib from muslims attacking the muslims would of attacked it anyways,READ YOUR HISTORY HONESTLY dashmesh_regiment.

tell me dashmesh regiment would india's government attacked harmandar sahib for no reason if bhindranwale had left? yes or no just answer the question if you don't it just shows me your just like any other supporter of bhindranwale believing in urban myth.

Dashmesh regiement you just said 70 gurdwaras were attacked for no reason could you name me 3 or 5 or even 10 of the gurdwaras that were attacked??? cause i believe its an urban myth but if it were true and you wouldn't believe in an urban myth would you, you should be able to name 3-5-10 or even all 70 gurdwaras that were attacked.


Operation blue star the govt used bhindranwale as an excuse to attack harmandar sahib, so why do sikhs look up to bhindranwale as a leader what he did doesn't show leadership quality's in my eyes, if bhindranwale and his followers were not in the harmandar sahib then their would of bin NO OPERATION BLUESTAR.

So ppl believe in urban myth now can i ask something i personally don't believe bhindranwale had anything to do with inocent hindus being killed and i give him credit for speaking on sikh rights i said this before.

But do any of you ppl believe bhindranwale ever ordered any of his followers to kill inocent hindus yes or no??
My answer is no cause their is no evidence, same reason i believe india's govt wouldn't attack harmandar sahib if bhindranwale followers were inside cause their is no evidence. If youc an believe in urban myth's then why not believe bhindranwal followers killed inocent hindus.??

One reason im against khalistan is i don't understand whats the point of running away from india and getting your own country rather then winning your rights in india and fighting for justice for the inocent sikhs killed in the anti sikh riots and all the other crimes commited.??

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: January 19, 2008 06:28PM

firstly you havent answered any of my questions.

secondly, where did i say 70 gurdwaras were attacked? i merely quoted from some sources i found. the governments own white paper on bluestar says other gurdwaras were attacked.

the sources have named the gurdwara in patiala. it is a very famous gurdwara. its also says the one at chowk metha was attacked. that is 2. im sorry i cant name any others but the governments own white paper says others were "raided"/attacked. i cant understand why you cant accept this. in any case even if there was no evidence, surely it would be logical for the government to raid other suspected militant gurdwaras?

thirdly where did i say operation blusestar happened for no reason?

blusestar MAY or MAY not have happened where it not for sant ji fortifying amritsar. you or i do not know this. i personally think it the army would have entered the complex as long as some sikh militants were there. the fact that sant ji was there gave them excuse enough. if he wasnt there, but others were, i personally think the army would have still gone in but not to the extent that it did with sant ji there. this is a difficult qns to answer since you or i do not know the governments plan at the time. we EACH have our PERSONAL thoughts.

how do you know the afghans attacked amritsar for no reason? what is your source for this information? you are very confused. on one hand you say some people on this forum are saying bluestar was for no reason (which you think is wrong) yet you say above that the afghans attacked amritsar for no reason and would have done it anyway? what is the reasoning and logic behind this? both attacked for MANY REASONS. some of these reasons may have been similar some different. but surely an anti-sikh ideology came into play into BOTH of the attackers. this you cannot deny. again you do not know the story of baba gurbaskh singh properly. abdali attacked amritsar more than once. one of the times he did was to get rid of the nihangs led by baba ji. why? these nihangs would raid his caravans at night and take his loot. he did not like this.

gurdwaras are known as places of worhsip and politics. what is anandpur sahib? a fort and gurdwara. think about this.

it is clear that some of sant ji's followed killed innocent sikhs and hindus. whoever says they didnt i think is blind. sant ji himself stated in public that this was wrong. but "innonence" is subjective. whilst you or i may say they were innocent, the people who killed these innocents may claim that they were not. you were not there nor was i.

fighting for justice you say!?
24 years on and ask the riot victims families how much justice the indian government has given them? the killers are MP's whilst the victims live in slums given 2 lakh rupees each as compensation.

what about the thousands of sikhs killed in fake encounters? where is there justice? mr khalra was killed for seeking justice.

you need to read up a bit more and think before you shout.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: January 19, 2008 08:43PM

dashmesh_regiment you also conterdicted yourself, you claimed during operation bluestar that 74 gurdwaras were attacked then said 42 were attacked

"At the same time that the Golden Temple was being attacked, some seventy other gurdwaras (Sikhs temples) were also being attacked. As stated in Politics of Genocides: "While the Darbar Sahib was under attack, other Army units were battling their way into 74 other gurdwaras in Punjab."

"Elsewhere across Punjab hundreds of Sikhs were killed in the army operation at the same time which saw 42 Gurdwaras raided at the same time as the Golden Temple, including high casualties at Moga, Mukatsar, Faridkot, Patiala, Ropar and Chowk Mehta."

you sound just like xyliton your telling me to believe in fairy tailes yet won't provide me evidence, you sound like those ppl who claim jews did 9/11 yet ppl can't provide evidence and constantly making up fairy tailes.

As well what does 84 anti sikh riots have to do with what im saying about bhindranwale.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: January 20, 2008 06:18AM

I have not contradicted myself - AGAIN, where did I PERSONALLY say that 74 or 42 (or any specific number of gurdwaras) were attacked? I merely quoted some sources/quotes/info I found. I have accepted that there a number of discrepancies in the facts - this is inevitable in history and in particular when the Indian Government had imposed a MEDIA BLACKOUT.

I have PREVIOUSLY said that the sources/quotes say that the gurdwara in Patiala and the gurdwara at Chowk Metha were attacked. THAT IS 2 NAMED gurdwaras. I am sorry I cannot state anymore from any named sources but I am sure other people with more knowledge than me will be able to produce a list - I am pretty sure a list has already been made but again I have not seen a list so am unable to verify this, however - see the paragraph below about the fairy tales you keep mentioning.

fairy tales? - if you read what i wrote, the GOVERNMENT'S OWN WHITE PAPER admits other gurdwaras were attacked at the same time. The clean up operation was called OPERATION WOODROSE. Please do some research.

I mentioned the 84 riots as YOU said that why do some Khalistanis sit in UK USA Canada and moan, why dont they goto India and seek JUSTICE? My point is that INDIA HAS NO JUSTICE FOR SIKHS. The leaders of the 84 riots are MP's at this point in time. KPS Gill is President of the Hockey Federation. How many CBI cases have been issued against him and Tytler?

I answer (or try to) your questions directly. You do not answer anyone's questions - you need to learn how to argue effectively. Please answer my questions.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: January 20, 2008 12:58PM

dashmesh regiment what question of mine did you answer, this is why i get mad everyone avoids my questions

first of all thats not a real government white paper and i tried researching the two gurdwaras that you claimed were attacked and nothing, ive always tried finding evidence and nothing, from books internet anything asking ppl at the gurdwara who make the same claims if 40 gurdwaras were attacked could you name a few and they can't name one. Tell me what makes you think thats the governments own white paper??????



Please provide evidence without using a khalistani website.


look at this website do you believe what this website claims while it provides wittnesses who saw bhindranwale make terrorist like threats
[www.sikhtimes.com]

once again
[www.sikhtimes.com]

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: January 20, 2008 01:00PM

Myth #1: Bhindranwale Was Not a Terrorist

In 1985, Citizens for Democracy (C.F.D.), founded by Jayaprakash Narayan and chaired by the noted civil libertarian Justice V.M. Tarkunde, produced a report on the Punjab crisis. The report, banned in India because of its strong indictment of the state, has received wide acceptance within the diaspora Sikh community despite its acknowledgement of 'Bhindranwale's role in inciting violence.'50

Violent thoughts seemed second nature to Bhindranwale. He often made extremely cruel remarks with utmost sincerity, 'If a true Sikh drinks, he should be burnt alive.'51 Tavleen Singh discovered that in Bhindranwale's darbar (court), 'concepts like non-violence were mocked and sneering remarks made about Gandhi.'52 Perhaps Khushwant Singh said it best, 'He well understood that hate was a stronger passion than love.'53

Although the 'mad monk'54 was politically astute enough to recant vicious statements made in the heat of the moment, it is instructive to note just how bellicose he was when aroused.


Harmit Singh Batra was in the Darbar Sahib complex on April 13, 1978 and quotes Bhindranwale, 'We will not allow this Nirankari convention to take place. We are going to march there and cut them to pieces!'55


Following the clash with the Nirankaris on April 13, 1978, the 'Sant' and his cohorts were always armed. Bhindranwale often publicly recited his mantra, 'being armed, there is no sin greater than not seeking justice.'56 And they perceived plenty of injustice all around, which they rectified with the use of illegal force.


After the assassination of the Nirankari leader Gurbachan Singh on April 24, 1980, Bhindranwale is universally acknowledged to have remarked that if he ever met Ranjit Singh, the suspected killer, he would weigh him in gold (i.e. reward him with his weight in gold).57


On October 22, 1982, Bhindranwale made a public statement threatening the 'political and physical end' of anyone who didn't press for the full implementation of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution.58


On August 17, 1983, Bhindranwale asked Sikh youth to buy a motorcycle and a revolver and threatened to kill 5,000 Hindus in an hour if the police delayed the minibus he had sent to fetch Amrik Singh who had just been released from police custody.59


During a speech on September 20, 1983, Bhindranwale stated clearly that he would 'embrace' Sikhs who exacted revenge upon those who were guilty of torturing, killing, or humiliating Sikhs. He said, 'Getting away from there is your job, protecting you here [in the Darbar Sahib complex] is mine.'60


On November 17, 1983, Bhindranwale bluntly demanded 'that all Hindus should leave Punjab.'61


During a public speech delivered on May 24, 1984 at the Darbar Sahib complex, Bhindranwale openly admitted his complicity in the gruesome beheading of Surinder Singh Chinda for his role in the elimination of Bhindranwale's leading hit man, Surinder Singh Sodhi.62
Even Bhindranwale's staunchest supporters only go as far as stating, 'Bhindranwale consistently opposed violence against any innocent person.'63 The autocratic Bhindranwale had assumed singular jurisdiction over the guilt and innocence of a good portion of India's citizens. And to him lethal violence was a justified means of punishment for those whom he considered culpable. He was the legislature, executive and judiciary all rolled into one with complete disregard for the democratic concept of the separation of powers. The result was nothing short of 'ethnic cleansing.'64

Dilbir Singh (see above) related the following account of how masterfully Bhindranwale ordered the killing of Lala Jagat Narain, proprietor-editor of the Hind Samachar group of newspapers:


And in one edition Lala had written in an editorial comment that Taura [Tohra, then president of the S.G.P.C.] and Ajnoha [then jathedar of the Akal Takht] are traitors. On that day in a great fury he [Bhindranwale] called upon someone to read aloud what Lala had said. There was quiet. 'Our turban has been torn from our heads,' he proclaimed. Then one of his followers asked, 'What are your orders?' Again in anger, he said 'Orders, you need orders! What orders? Are you blind?' Now you see he did not say anything. And they said it. 'O.K.' meaning thereby, we'll finish this man. So, then, 3-4 days later, Lala was coming from Ludhiana and they fired upon him.65
According to Chand Joshi, a veteran correspondent for The Hindustan Times, 'In the Nirankari Baba murder case, for instance, the C.B.I. claimed to have pin-pointed four suspects including Jarnail Singh Brar alias Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. The arrest warrants had been given to the Punjab police but were not served because of 'orders from the highest quarters.' '66

It is worth noting, 'The decision to release Bhindranwale was taken by the [Indira Gandhi and Zail Singh] government. It was not the verdict of a court.'67

Finally, it is impossible to accept that the people closest to Bhindranwale could consistently perpetrate monstrous violence without his endorsement.


Nachhatar Singh, arrested by the police for the murder of Lala Jagat Narain, is said to have fingered Bhindranwale for ordering the killing.68


The hijackers of an Indian Airlines plane on September 20, 1981 claimed to be members of the Dal Khalsa and demanded the release of Bhindranwale, who had been arrested in connection with the murder of Lala Jagat Narain.69 In a speech, Bhindranwale 'praised his young lieutenants' for the hijacking.70


On July 18, 1982, a police party from the Beas Thana in Amritsar district stopped a jeep. Most of the occupants were residents of Bhindranwale's gurdwara Gurdarshan Parkash at Chowk Mehta. They attacked the police and were arrested. No case was initiated.71


The next day, Amrik Singh, Bhindranwale's most trusted lieutenant, and six close associates of Bhindranwale, including Bhindranwale's personal driver Kulwant Singh, were arrested for an attempt on the life of Joginder Singh Sandhu, the Nirankari Mandal's propaganda secretary.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: January 20, 2008 03:03PM

i have tried to answer your questions directly. are you unable to read? which question do you want an answer to?

i have referred you to the GOVERNMENT'S WHITE PAPER ON BLUESTAR. is that a khalistani website? you have tried researching it have you?! thats very quick since it is over 1500 pages long. your research no doubt consists of "googling it".

The governments white paper says that 59 people were killed and 35 were wounded during the attacks on other gurdwaras. 20 people were killed at Gurdwara DUkh Niwaran in Patiala. did you read that part? probably not.

You say i only use khalistani websites? you have only quoted from ANTI KHALISTAN SOURCES! Khushwant Singh for example claims to have met Sant Ji but it is clear from Sant Ji's speeches that he has never ever met him - he says i dont like him or his writings but i have never met him. Khushwant Singh was lying.

i have seen those quotes before. one mans terrorist is another man's hero. i am not denying that sant ji most probably gave orders to kill lala jagat narain. that man publicly abused the gurus. he took that risk himself.
sant ji also most likely gave orders to kill many others. whether or not they were innocents is a matter of debate. no doubt some innocent people were most likely killed. only a fool would deny this.

is seeking revenge on those who have abused your gurus, your family etc a bad thing? if the government or police cant protect you - what are you to do? sit there and take someone killing your family, robbing your house? would you take that? sikhi teaches to raise the sword after all others means are exhausted.

in my opinion, the violence was a matter of self defence. lala abused the gurus. he was killed. nirankari sant pretended to be a guru, he was killed. you may think this is bad. others do not. if someone was to kill the dera sacha sauda sadh - would you call that man a terrorist or would you call him a shaheed. are sukha singh and mehtab singh (who killed massar ranga) terrorists?

the murder of shinda was an act of personal revenge for sant ji. this i cannot deny. shinda killed sodhi, sant ji ordered the killing of shinda.i have heard the speech of sant ji after shinda was killed. is this terrorism? that is for you to decide. if someone killed your friend and you knew the police would do nothing about it, what would you do?

i cannot justify what sant ji said about the 5000 hindus. he tried to justify it by saying he wanted to attract the governments attention, i personally think he said it in anger as the police had burned the guru granth sahib ji. i do not think this statement was right and was full of hatred. i accept this.

however when innocent sikhs and hindus were killed - ie taken off buses and trains and shot - that is wrong. no one cany deny that. however just because the government said it was sikh militants who did it doesnt mean it was. we all know what confusion was created when 35 sikhs were killed in kashmir 5 years back. bill clinton himself thought it was a propaganda stunt pulled by the indian government. india is an untrustworthy and corrupt society and government - we all know this. we all know that CATS existed during the movement. even KPS Gill and DGP Virk have admitted this. CATS created confusion and killed innocents blaming it on the militants.

however im sure some sikh militants did kill innocents. this is wrong. sant ji did say that killing innocents is wrong but killing guilty people is not wrong. this obviously would lead to violence. i cant deny that either but tell me how is it not in accordance with sikh principles?

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: January 21, 2008 12:19PM

why is it no one else knows about those white papers, ive tried finding info about those white papers and no results. Have you read those white papers? could you reference anything from those white papers? COULD YOU TELL ME A MIDDLE SOURCE THAT WOULD PROVIDE THE SAME FACTS. I don't do my research on sikh websites or authors or indian and if i have to i look at both sides of the story, as well i look for middle men who pick no sides to get my facts.

here are my questions you think you answered but i don't think you did so ill ask it again

dashmesh_regiment do you believe the congress party was going to order attacks on harmandar sahib for no reason if bhindranwale and his followers were not inside?

if yes then what would indira gandhi told the world to explain her actions and what would she tell the 10-15% of the indian army who consisted of sikhs, and how would this shown india that she is a strong leader by going and killing inocent sikhs for no reason and proving at that point to the world sikhs were discriminated against.

I know sikhs were discriminated against but congress was smart and made sikhs look like terrorists in front of the world, now if congress had no excuse and just killed inocent sikhs what would they tell the world.??

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: January 21, 2008 12:40PM

i think were both misunderstanding eachother

I believe sikhs face and have faced prejidice in ways in india, some of the prejidice we face like the jokes made about sikhs is brought on by ourselves but what congress did and what rss and bjp are doing is pure prejidice, for congress it was for money and power, for bjp and rss its to create a talibon style hindu india.

I believe bhindranwale was not a good or capable leader but he did a good job talking about are rights being violated for political gains

reason i don't think he should be admired for what happened in operation bluestar and why i don't think he was a good leader was cause when india's govt was threatening to attack him in harmandar sahib he shouldn't of brought weapons in he and his followers should of gone underground and picked a different battle ground to take on the indian govt, If he went underground india's govt would of bin forced to leave harmandar sahib alone, and for anyone who believes they would attack it for no reason answer this first, what would indira gandhi told the ppl of india what would she told the sikhs in india and in the army and government and especially what woudl she told the international community.


Bhindranwale and his followers were one of two reasons india's govt planned operation blue star and the second reason was to teach sikhs a lesson.

Looking from an accountable point of view both indira gandhi and congress party and bhindranwale and his followers are responsible for operation bluestar.

Alot of ppl fail to explain if indira gandhi just wanted to destroy sikhs why would she keep two sikh body guards?? for her it was money and power and in punjab she saw both and she did not like being disrespected and wanted to keep this image of a strong leader for her ppl and anyone who challenged her she would attack.

Like i said many books written by pro bhindranwale supporters and you claim those white papers are real then why hasn't anyone and i mean anyone bin able to name the gurdwaras attacked yet you got these guys saying 42 gurdaras were attacked or 74 were attacked, i use to believe this to but till this day no one has mentioned names of these places.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2008 02:24PM

dashmesh_regiment dude nothing say's those white papers exsist, and nothing about those two gurdwaras being attacked lol, oh man your sources are khalistani websites, name the gurdwaras and give me a reference which talks about this, tell me why the rest of the world and india itself doesn't know about these white papers.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: sidhu.hcl (IP Logged)
Date: March 07, 2008 12:24PM

I Believe Srimaan Sant BAba JArnail Singh Bhindranwale BAbaji was a great leader to sikhs.

He was the single person of the time after Maharaja RAnjit Singh who had the calibre to put all sikhs altogether. Under his regime every sikh was drown away by his words.

This kind of leadership we require..

Im not in favour of the method he adopted. but yes even if u listen him now u can see howmuch LEADERSHIP QUALITY he was having in him. moreover he directed sikhs to not to hurt anybody's religious sentiment but also he said this doesn't mean tht anyone can hurt ours.

He cald everyone to unite under one roof and asked the sikhs residing outside Punjab to always be equipped with Kirpans or hathyaars .. coz anything can happen anytime
moreover selfdefence is not a crime.

i believe he was a prefect LEADER of his time.. we should all respect the great personality.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: March 18, 2008 03:40PM

mandeep:

this article refers to the goverments white paper. it exists. unlucky mate.

[www.india-today.com]

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: March 18, 2008 11:04PM

but dashmesh_regiment coudl you tell me what the 40 other gurdwaras were that were attacked? cause till someone names them its an urban myth

sidhu.hcl bhindranwale should of stayed out of harmandar sahib and kept weapions out instead of turning it into a place of politics and he was political if you check earlier in the post i provide evidence. If he stayed out of harmandar sahib then india wouldn't bin able to attack it.

maharaja ranjit singh would of bin ten times more smarter then bhindranwale

Why congress attack sikhs?
if congress attack sikhs for just hating sikhs and made it obvious how would they reacted to trying to handle 10-15% of their army that consisted of sikhs

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: March 19, 2008 04:02PM

if you could read, you would see that i already named chowk mehta and dukhniwaran in patiala as 2 other gurdwaras attacked. i am unable at this point to name a third which you previously asked for. now you ask for all 40 (the number is in dispute in an case). you change the goal posts again - shows you cant debate.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: dashmesh_regiment (IP Logged)
Date: March 19, 2008 04:08PM

oh and by the way - do you want to apologise for implying that i and several others lied about the existence of the governments white paper?

as the government white paper was a "urban myth" it must be the case that the fact that other gurdwaras were also attacked is another "urban myth" because YOU (someone who has been shown to be factually inaccurate) says so!

mandeep you need to read some books and think before you write.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: inderjeet1012 (IP Logged)
Date: March 20, 2008 02:02AM

mandeep man get a life and start discussing issues that are going to help your and others sikhi............you may say a few clever comments here and there .......

so what????

calm down and think if all this really taking you anywhere........... and trying to undermine the gurmukhs of the past and present wont help you............

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: March 20, 2008 06:18PM

dashmesh regiment i also asked to show me references to those two gurdwaras attacked and i mean credible, also start naming the gurdwaras with evidence, tell me were in those white papers it says 40 gurdwaras were attacked please.

Could you give me any reference that names the 40 gurdwaras attacked cause till this day no one has bin able to proving that this is an urban myth about 40 other gurdwaras being attacked and once again proving that bhindranwale and indira gandhi were both causes of operation bluestar.

dashmesh regiment you havn't provided any evidence as of yet, your debate is dumb, so if i said in the white papers it says no other gurdwaras were attacked would it make it true??

PPl would be stupid if they believed me if i said that the indian army never attacked harmandar sahib instead fed the militants and the ppl ladoo's and thats true cause its what it says on the whtie papers,yet i wouldn't be able to provide evidence, same goes for the two gurdwaras you claim to be attacked cause im waiting for you to provide credibile evidence just give me anything on top of that no one till this day bin able to name any of the 40 gurdwaras so i personally believe ppl who believe this myth are stupid.

 
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