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Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Pardeep Singh Bilga (IP Logged)
Date: December 08, 2007 01:11AM

Is it just me, or are there others who are sick and tired of so called "Sikhs" who are totally against Sant Bhindranwale? I find that the typical 40-somethings who grew up in Punjab and were in their youth during 1984 are the worst, as all they saw/heard at the time was anti-Sikh government propaganda- and it seems to have worked! These people have not done any research whatsoever and just spew whatever they've been told - now these kinds of people are moaning about the portrait of Sant-ji at Amritsar, along with Shiv Sena, BJP etc - whom one would expect this from, but our "own" are not even on one side!
Sant-ji never approved the killing of innocents, yet is being made out to be some kind of "hindu-murderer" - makes me think sometimes, what is/was the point of exclusively targeting specific guilty people to gun down (as was the majority case throughout the 80's by the Singhs), as the Singhs are demonised anyway? - Why not just go round blowing up mandirs across India - it does the trick for Al-Qaeda and the Hindus certainly got away with it in the case of the Babri masjid!

Bhul chuk maaf

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: December 08, 2007 08:49PM

bhindranwale did great things when speaking for equal rights for sikhs, i don't believe he killed inocent ppl.

But bhindranwale shouldn't of endangered the lives of inocent ppl or damage for the harmandar sahib, i blame operation blue star or the congress party and bhindranwale, i blame the congress for attacking the harmandar sahib and for planning the attack, and i blame bhindranwale because when he knew the govt wanted him he should of gone under ground rather then start preparing the harmandar sahib as a battle field, he shouldn't of brought weapions into harmandar sahib. If bhindranwale went underground the congress party would of bin forced to boycot their plans for operation bluestar and forget about it.

But congress party isn't a hindutva party remember indira gandhi married a parsi her son married a cathlic who is the current leader of congress and the rss and all hindu militant organisations have wanted to destroy congress from the day india got independence, it were hindutva supporters who killed gandhi and it was hindutva supporters who wanted to kill rajiv gandhi more then the sikhs did after he sent in the indian army to kill tamil hindus in sri lanka supporting the non hindu govt of sri lanka, the congress were smart and were power hungry and corrupt ppl that explains them they were no hindu militant group they are just like the british they know how to pin groups against other groups and how to make ppl their puppets, jagdesh tytler who was the biggest player in anti sikh riots was raised by a christian missionary.

Now some ppl are going to say bhindranwale went into harmandar sahib to protect it but i would like them to provide me evidence of this. Because i have never seeen evidence just heard story's and when i ask these ppl were they heard these story's well they heard it from someone else.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2007 02:52AM

So true. But then this is ghor kaliyug in which saintly person is slandered and sakats are worshipped.
Its not just Baba Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindrawale, people in Punjab slander jhujarru singhs too, and u have same people worshipping Navjot Sidhu who is a sell-out. But no need to worry. Waheguru Jee knows everything. He is true and His Justice is true as well. People of Punjab will pay a HEAVY price for betraying SAtguru Jee and His pyare sikhs.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Pardeep Singh Bilga (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2007 06:02AM

Harinder Singh ji, you say that you blame Sant Bhindranwale, as well as the Congress party for operation blue star. Do you really think, that to arrest 1 man, there was a need for tanks, helicopters and thousands of military men to completely destroy Akal Takhat sahib and kill innocent pilgrims too?
Sant ji used to hold open speeches - most of the time there were undercover police & intelligence officials in the sangat- why not use a sniper to kill him?
Sant ji said on many occasions, that he was not "hiding" in the complex of Darbar Sahib, if the government wanted to arrest him, they could have - yes, there may have been a backlash, but surely the congress knew that sending in the army would create a much greater resentment towards Delhi.
The reason for operation blue star was to "teach a lesson" to the Sikhs.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Mehtab Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2007 07:01AM

Mr. mandeep, I gave you link to a book on Discover Sikhi forum where Mark Tully of BBC has clearly stated that the army had planned the attack 7-8 months before it took place, therefore you cannot blame Sant Ji. You still haven't checked the book. Please hold your comments until you have checked.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Pardeep Singh Bilga (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2007 09:12AM

Sorry - my last post was meant in response to mandeep, NOT Harinder Singh ji...

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Bakaree (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2007 02:28PM

I am so sick and tired, of ignorant people who do not know the full facts.
The "why didn't he let them arrest him" is the same thing I have heard hundreds of times. What people don't realise is that sant ji, had been arrested previously and let go without any charges. Many other gurduawara sahibs were attacked (I believe 70 something, but don't quote me) was their intended target, one man, at the everywhere at the same time?
If they had not been for the gursikhs many more would have died, as the government chose such a special day knowing full well that Sikhs from all across India including the world would be there.
also, it was unconstitutional, the Punjab police have stated that if they were ordered to arrest sant ji, they were more than capable of doing so, indeed they were not told to do so, as there were no charges. The army was brought in over the Punjab government head, bypassing them.
it was malicious and meticulously planned don't believe the hype

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Xylitol (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2007 05:05PM

I suggest you read 'The Gallant Defender' written by AR Darshi. Mr Darshi was CM of punjab at one time. He lets people in on a lot of what was happening in background during those days.

In his book, he writes that dozens and dozens of sikh places of worship were simultaneously attacked. If the army only wanted Sant ji, than why would they also attack those places?

The attack was in the planning for a long time before it actually happened. The government had a model of Darbar Sahib built many months before the attack and commandos practiced attacking it. Sant ji knew this, and like a good son decided to accept shaheedi defending his father's house.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2007 09:33PM

Mehtab Singh could you tell me were that author heard that story, did he get that fact from an ex indian spy, were their pictures taken, how did that author know that the indian government planned an attack before sant jarnail bhindranwale was in their, their books that say sant jarnail bhindranwale killed inocent hindus but these books don't tell us were they got their facts from does that make it true. I don't think so, if you know the book so well could you tell me were the author got his information from.

Their books all over the place their books that claim sikhism is part of hinduism without evidence does it make it true because its in a book, NO.

Bakaree you said 70 gurdwaras were attacked could you name me some of the gurdwaras and tell me what happened to them.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2007 12:16AM

Baba Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindrawale fought one of the greatest wars ever. The singhs had pretty mediocre weapons(It was government who placed sophisticated weapons after the attack) and the singhs who actually fought werent many. I think they were about 50 odd singhs who got ready for shaheedi. Many singhs ran too as they dint have the kamayee who give shaheedi.
The army had thought that this operation would last only for few hours but were completely shocked at the response they got from guru ke soorme. THe army was killed in large numbers(which obviously they wont admitt). The army got so insulted and angered at singhs that after they entered Darbar SAhib complex, they started killed innocent pilgrims. THe army committed terrible sins and the whole of indian nation will suffer from those sins in the future. Khalsa is going to come back and teach New Delhi a lesson.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Mehtab Singh (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2007 09:31AM

[www.experiencefestival.com]

In October 1983, 600 top soldiers of the Indian army began rehearsing an assault on the Akal Takhat at a secret location in the Chakrata Hills about 150 miles north of Delhi. They constructed a replica of the Darbar Sahib complex for the training. (Ref: Mark Tully's "Amritsar: Mrs. Gandhi's Last Battle" Page 118). Reports of these plans reached the Sikh Leadership. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale along with Major General Shabeg Singh and other militants moved their quarters to Akal Takhat.

This was the info I gave you on Discover Sikhi forum. You said you had the book and will check, but you never did.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2007 04:48PM

mehtab singh were did the author get his information from is what im asking you, and yes im going to get my hands on that book, but once again tell me were did the author get his information from, did he get it from a khalistani who could of made that story up or did he get it from an indian soilder who saw the plans or an ex indian spy.

Tell me were did the author get his information from or did he get it from one of his buddies.

I heard this story a million times and like i said no one has ever given reference to were this story came from.

government and books have bin written saying sant jarnail bhindranwale killed inocent hindus does this mean its true.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2007 10:58PM

Mehtab Singh i have a very important question to ask before i move on
why did the congress party attack sikhs and why were they against sikhs??

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Karimul Fateh (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2007 11:02PM

Veer Mandeep ji,
We would like you to go through this link "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Frontier_Force".Here is what it says

"Since the SFF consisted largely of Tibetans, they were seen as an ideal counter-terrorist force as they were not directly related to Indian demographic profile. Thus, the Director General (DG) Security, Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW) dispatched 500 SFF operatives along with over 500 Indian Army special forces to Sarasawa for Counter Terrorist training, it is also thought that the selected troopers thereafter was sent to Israel for highly specialized training. These men formed the nucleus of an ultra elite and highly classified new detachment, known as the Special Group, which fell under the command of the SFF Inspector General (IG). Surprisingly, most Tibetans no longer serve in the Special Group. By early 1984, the SFF's elite Special Group became the primary counter-terrorist outfit in India. They participated in the assault on Golden Temple, but the mission was to prove faulty due to a lack of intelligence on the militants whereabouts in the temple locality. The SFF Special Group is very similarly structured like the Special Air Service (SAS) Regiment, its Headquarters supported by a Intelligence and Planning wing, a Training wing and a specialist Signals Troop which is solely responsible for support operations. Having four Squadrons each made up of around 100 troopers, which are further divided into four Troops. Each Troop has a specialized role. "

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Xylitol (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2007 11:25PM

As I've stated in my post, read THE GALLANT DEFENDER by AR Darshi, a Hindu, and the former chief minister of Punjab. It is a worthwhile read, and a lot of your questions regarding authenticity should be answered.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: mandeep (IP Logged)
Date: December 12, 2007 04:08PM

i know operation bluestar was planned and soilders needed training thats not my question my question was evidence on that bhindranwale went into harmandar sahib to protect it because he got word the indian government would attack it for no reasion.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Karimul Fateh (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2007 12:11AM

<< i know operation bluestar was planned and soliders needed training thats not my question >>
You don't need to give training to already trained soldiers , you only tell them the details about the plan like which company of which battalion will make the move. Who'll be at egress point and who will secure which area and who will throw the cordon.

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Karimul Fateh (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2007 12:53AM

here is one more link
"http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/sep/14pca.htm"

Operation Bluestar: 'Right decision, wrong implementation'
New Delhi | September 14, 2004 15:22 IST
Last Updated: September 15, 2004 15:11 IST

The decision for a quick commando action instead of a siege of the Golden Temple in Amritsar to flush out terrorists was taken by army generals at the 'eleventh hour' taking then prime minister Indira Gandhi by surprise.P C Alexander, who was principal secretary to Gandhi and later to her son and successor Rajiv Gandhi, says this in his just released autobiography.
<<Why she was surprised for the commando action at the eleventh hour is anybody's guess>>

The initial plan, as spelt out by then army chief General A S Vaidya, was an 'effective siege' involving cutting off telephone lines, electricity, water, food and inflow of men and weapons, says Alexander in Through the corridors of power published by Harper Collins, India.
However, four days after briefing Gandhi, Gen Vaidya got back to her and said that it was the 'considered opinion' of the generals commanding the operations that while the siege could work for the smaller gurudwaras (where extremists had stocked arms and ammunition) it could not work in the case of the Golden Temple.
Gandhi, writes Alexander, was 'taken aback', but she 'respected their professional judgement' and did not interfere with those in command of field operations.

<< So the government was not only after Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindranwale, it has somme other motives also>>

Stating that the Golden Temple was easily accessible to intelligence teams for several weeks before the operations, Alexander writes, "If correct information about their (militants') numbers and weapons was available, it is doubtful whether they (army) would have gone ahead with the changed plan of operations in the manner they did, which necessitated the entry of tanks."

<< This only shows it Operation Bluestar was planned many weeks before hand>>

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Xylitol (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2007 09:51AM

Gandhi herself ordered the attack so she wouldn't appear weak , as there was an election near.

the former CHIEF MINISTER OF PUNJAB himself confirmed that the army had been practicing the assault on a model. As for how sant ji knew, he had spies and informants, how else would he know?

 



Re: Sick Of Anti-Sant Bhindranwale "Sikhs"
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: December 14, 2007 09:47AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Xylitol jio,

Quote "read THE GALLANT DEFENDER by AR Darshi, a Hindu, and the former chief minister of Punjab"

Could you verify when this AR Darshi was chief miniter of Punjab? and what is full name of AR?

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 
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