ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
Krishna Question
Posted by : Singh
Date: 7/26/2004 7:20 am
Does anyone know what the below means. I know sikhi rejects the worship of Krishna, Rama etc but would like clarification of what the below is saying.
The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul.
Nanak is a slave to anyone who understands this mystery of the all-pervading Lord; he himself is the Immaculate Divine Lord. ||4|| ang 469
Re: Krishna Question
Posted by : Singh
Date: 7/26/2004 11:11 am
What does this mean
krisnaa tay jaan-oo har har naachantee naachnaa. ||1||
Know that, through Krishna, the Lord, Har, Har, the dance of creation dances. ||1||
Ang 693
Re: Krishna Question
Posted by : k
Date: 7/27/2004 4:50 pm
?
Re: Krishna Question
Posted by : Kulbir Singh
Date: 7/27/2004 5:16 pm
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Does anyone know what the below means. I know sikhi rejects the worship of Krishna, Rama etc but would like clarification of what the below is saying.
The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul.
Nanak is a slave to anyone who understands this mystery of the all-pervading Lord; he himself is the Immaculate Divine Lord. ||4|| ang 469
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Judging from the meanings and the ang of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee it seems like this is the 2nd Salok of 12th Pauri of Siri Asa kee Vaar. The original paath goes as follows:
AIK KRISHNANG, SARB DEVAA-DEV, DEVA TAAN AATMA||
AATMA BAASDEVSIA, JE KO JAANAI BHEYO||
NANAK TAAKA DAAS HAI, SOYEE NIRANJAN DEYO||
The meanings translated above are so misleading. The word “Krishna” here means Vaheguru just as in thousands of other places in Gurbani Raam, Mohan, Hari etc. mean Vaheguru. The adjective “Aik” before “Krishnang” is very significant and further proves that Siri Guru jee is referring to Vaheguru jee here and not Krishna of Brindabana and Dwarika Nagri who lived in the Duaapar age.
The first pankiti of this salok is very complicated. All teekakaars (translators) have done different padd-chhed (separation) of this pankiti. Here are the meanings as this daas understands this pankiti:
Aik Krishnang: One Vaheguru
Sarb Devaa-Dev – He is the deva (master or deity) of all Devaas (deities). Sarb Devaa means all the deities and the word “Deva” is plural here. The second “Deva” is singular and denotes Vaheguru.
Deva taan Aatma: Vaheguru is the aatma of all deities i.e. all the power of other deities is from Vaheguru.
Aatma Baasdevsia: Baasdevsia here means Vaheguru and aatma means the inside of Vaheguru i.e. his aatma. Baasdevia daa aatma or Soul of Vaheguru.
Je ko jaanai bheyo: If some realises this secret (of his soul).
The last line is quite obvious. The whole pankiti can be translated as follows:
One Vaheguru is the deity and soul of all other deities. Siri Guru jee says that he (Guru Sahib) is servant to such person who has realised the aatma of Vaheguru (Aatma Baasdevia) because such person after realising the aatma of Vaheguru becomes a roop of Vaheguru himself (Soyee Naranjan Deyo).
Amazing Salok this is.
Daas,
Kulbir Singh
Re: Krishna Question
Posted by : Singh
Date: 7/28/2004 5:45 am
I would largely agree with Kulbir Singhs translation. However I would translate
Aik = One ie Akal Purkh. One is used through out Gurbani as a reference to Akal Purkh
Krishnang Sarb Devaa-Dev Deva taan Aatma: = The one (Akal Purkh) from the above line is the deva of Krishna and all Devaas
The word Krishnang here is not for Akal Purkh (Aik) in any way but is included as part of the Serb Deva etc because Guru Sahib refers to Akal Purkh in Gurbani as Krishna only in the sense of being inside Krishna ie it was Akal Purkh who killed Murar, was the dark skinned Krishna, held the chakars etc. However Guru Ji does not use the word Krishna itself as a name for God in Gurbani.
Names like Gopal, Gobind etc are Karam naams, names with a meaning like World sustainer, which although traditionally used for Krishna are in Gurbani used for Akal Purkh. As in Gurmat there is one Waheguru and no second, hence all these Karam naams (names with meanings) are for that one as no second exists. Thus the word Krishnang follows Aik which refers to Akal Purkh and is part of Sarb Devaa-Dev Deva taan Aatma and is seperate from Aik.
I also think the second quote is wrongly translated looking at the Gurbani.
