ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
question about ardas
Posted by : sikh
Date: 7/24/2004 5:17 am
i actually heard from someone once that each time we do ardas a little bit of the kami we have done like read bani, jaap naam, sewa gets taken away from us, so we must be very careful about what we do ardas for, is this true?
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/24/2004 7:31 am
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
ARDASS.... the magical word ?? IMHO this is a bit too much used and abused....??? How ??
Today we often hear about "ardass" done by such and such sant/baba/mahapurash/karnai waleh etc will DO WONDERS....and people often run after these to get a chance to beg them to do ardass for them etc.
Then we get told about "sangat ardass"...the one that NEVER gets UNANSWERED...
ARDASS is a DHARMIK tradition right from GURU Ji's Time....and the Sikh panth has taken the step to CONSTRUCT a Five Minute "history slide" of Our entire Historical Tradition...this standardised version is availbale in the Sikh rehat maryada published by SGPC/AKAL TAKHAT.
Guru Ji in Gurbani has taught us the proper way of Ardass and what to ask for. Every religion in the World does ardass ( composed from two words ARJ + DAST = meaning Humble Request - Nimrata sahit BEanti.
BUT looking at practical instances....thousands upon thousands of Ardass are being performed daily all over the world....at Akhand paath arambh, bhog, sehaj path arambh, bhog, jordmelas, samgams, antim sanskaars ( up to seven ardass at ecah funeral)...ertc etc... some ardass are repeated again and again...BUT how many are FULFILLING what we ask for ?? Are the NATIONS that have reached the pinnacle of SUCCESS and POWER there due to the ARDASS their leaders or peoples did or through their HARD WORK and Perservierance ?? Is the Ardass and gubnai a MANTAR JAAP that results in instant gratification of our WISH ?? does an ardass perform miracles of stopping death, curing cancer, stopping accidents, reuniting lost relatives, give long life and health ?? etc etc
IF just an Ardass could have ben suficient...GURU NANAK SAHIB JEE would surely have done it in 1469...and ALL the World's ILLS and Problems would have disappeared....can any body dare doubt this statement ?? BUT GURU JI DIDNT PERFORM such an ardass... Did He want us just to have BLIND FAITH and do ardass everyday and sit around for Waheguru to perform to our wishes.....OR GURU NANAK JI wanted to CREATE a MAN capable of helping himself as well as having FAITH in WAHEGURU. IMHO it is this latter explanation.
Is there any SHORTFALL in our Ardass and in GURBANI ?? OR have we chosen the WRONG WAY contrary to What GURU JI taught us ?? It is universla Human Failing that everyone WANTS everything WITHOUT putting his body to any hard work or suffering.... THIS is where we also FAIL...INSTEAD of DOING NAAM SIMRAN, KEEPING REHAT, AWakening Waheguru within US.... we go running after those "SHORTCUT SPECIALISTS"... the "kamaii waleh charde kala waleh, sant babas, mahapurashs... who will "take our money" and PERFORM OUR ARDASS and everyhting will be A-OK..... and when this FAILS ( OBVIOUSLY as no one has any direct Broadband Connection to Waheguru)... we go looking for Another more kamaii walah more chardikla walh singh, baba ji, mahapurash ji etc...and the Circle goes on.....the BLIND leading the BLIND we stumble along the DARKENED FOOT PATH while completely IGNORING the BRIGHTLY LIT SUPER DUPER HIGHWAY of GURBANI that GURU JI Prepared for Us to travel along easily and super FAST..... and then we wonder why our "ardass" doesnt work, our "gurbani" doesnt seem sweet, our "amrit" seems useless....???? Struggling in the darkness we blame everything and everybody BUT OURSELVES.
It is not only the SIKHS who are in this self created mess.... there are Qazis mullahs, fakirs pirs, brahmins prohits, rishis, etc also doing the same tricks with the others and also in christianity as well... ALL catering to the HUGE DEMAND for SHORT CUTS and INSTANT granting of WISHES !!!
LOOK at INDIA.... for the past few THOUSAND YEARS.. this country suffered the MOST....its people were slaves, its daughters sold for 2 cents each in the Middle east, Mandirs were smashed, bhagwaan moortian ground into powder and stepped upon.....and YET this Land had perhaps the GREATEST NUMBER of RISHIS and HOLY MEN performing Hundreds of thousands of YUGGS, YOJNAS, HAVANS, Paaths, Mantars Jantars whatever all over the place.... NO COUNTRY in the World had more religious dharma than India....YEt INDIA endured the WORST.... GURU NANAK was forced to look at this and utter.... Etee MAAR paiyee KULANEH.....Tein Kee DAARD na aiyah ??? What happened to all those MILLIONS of paaths, jantars mantarrs havans, juggs etc etc ?? The Brahmins and Kazis had GUARANTEED the MOGHULS would be BLINDED and their WEAPONS DULLED - JUST PAY us the required sums for the "prayers".... GURU NANAK SAYS: "Koi Mughal Na ANDHA Hoaya.... Not a SINGLE moghul was BLINDED or his weapon DULLED ???? The INVADER trampled over and Utterly DESTROYED this beautiful land ( read Baabr vani by Guru nanak Ji for a fuller eye wittness account of ths destruction).
SIKHS TODAY have FALLEN into this BOTTOMLESS PIT that GURU NANAK WITTNESSED in Sultanpur Lodhi... we are falling for the sant baaba kamaii waleh etc to PRAY for US for a FEE and HOPE to get Instant RESULTS. How many COUNTLESS youths are waiitng hand and foot on these babas and sants all over their deras...hoping when their wishes will be fulfilled..their ardass answered ??? The Lodhi Sultans also committed the same mistake...and that is the LESSON of Babar vani for us.
When MIti dhund Jagg chanan Hoiyah...and Sarb kala Samrath Guru nanak Ji came down to this earth.... He saw years of Slavery, agianta, dharmik darkness, pitiful state of women in society, corruption, murder and mayhem instead of justice...political slavery, religious slavery, socoal slavery... slavery of 33 KROR DEVTAS....But did GURU ji think just a simple ARDASS will SOLVE all these problems...? I firmly beleive Guru Ji had the POWER MILLIONS of times GREATER than ALL the Sants/babas/mahapurashs/kamaii waleh singhs etc etc COMBINED.... BUT GURU JI knew that just "EMPTY TALK" serves no purpose...
GURU JI put his body through terrible sufferings walked thoiusands of miles to TEACH the SANTS/BABAS/RISHIS/KAZIS/MULLAHS to STOP cheating the unwary PUBLIC...to bring humanity to the RIGHT PAATH... GURU JI travelled thousands of mILES to SPREAD genuine KNOWLEDGE about the troubles and tribulations facing people and HOW to solve these problems.... a SIMPLE and STRAIGH FORWARD way.. the GURMATT WAY.... the WAY of GURBANI and GURU GRANTH... the SUPER HIGHWAY well LIGHTED and pot hole free....
Why did GURU ARJUN SAHIB JEE suffer such a horrendous SHAHEEDEE.... GURU HARGOBIND fought four wars...GURU Teg Bhadur Gave his Head..Guru Gobind Singh Ji GAVE his ENTIRE FAMILY and THOUSANDS of his most beloved SIKHS in BATTLES..... after that MLLIONS of SIKHS gave their ALL... Couldnt a simple ardass/jantar/mantar/paath secretly whispered could have PREVENTED all this ??? Did Bhai mani Singh do an ardass for TANDRUSTEE and LAMBI UMMAR like we do for $1.25 in the Gurdwara today ?? WE offer GURU JI $ 1.25 and ask for a Million Dollar LOTTERY...Big Palaces, huge cars..jobs, colege degrees, whatever.... GURU JI and THOUSANDS of SIKHS preferred DEATH to MIRACLES..... we on the other hand WISH for MIRACLES...for $ 1.25 ???? Is a miracle that cheap???
I am sick and tired of hearing... Why no FALL ( RESULTS ) in my GURBANI PAATH ( that is I did paath but got NO RESULTS)... Why wasnt my ARDASS FULFILLED ?? Why didnt Guru Ji HEAR my Ardass ?? Why is MY AMRIT not as "powerful" as the sant baba told me it would be ??? Why is Nitnem and rehat so hard and unfruitful, unsatisfying ?? Boring ?? can I SKIP a bani or two ?/ I am so tired today can I skip ishnaan ?? can I sleep late during my exam time ??( he wants Guru Ji to give him a GRADE One in his exam BUT cant keep amritvela ??) Where does the FAULT LIE ?? with GURU Ji/GURBANI/ARDASS/AMRIT.... OR with US square and Centre.
Guru Ji says" asthar rahu, Doloh Matt kabhoo...GUR KE BACHAN ADHAAR.... that is...DONT HESITATE....DONT be UNBALANCED...FOLLOW the GURU JI's BACHANS..... Gur Poora jis Bhetiah.. Taan ke SUKH parvesh..Mann ki Matt TIAGEAH suneah GUR UPDESH... Any one who LISTENS to the TRUE GURU, his BODY is filled with SUKH...DISPELL your Mannmatt and Listen to the GURMATT/Gur Teachings...
EVERY ONE COMES into this WORLD according to the mASTER PLAN of WAHEGURU.... each has his own bad and good karams to be weighed and balanced....NO ONE CAN ALTER this Master Plan..... YOU can TRY as much as YOU LIKE..But doing your MANMATT you will BE DISAPPOINTED. NOTHING CAN CHANGE WAHEGURU's PLAN...and the WISE know this....IF you still DONT "get it" go read some GURBANI...and ask yourself this: Guru Ji sarab kala samrath is sitting on the sizzling HOT plate.... a single finger He lifts can CHANGE EVERYTHING.... GURU ARJUN DOESNT..He says" TERA BHAANA MEETHA LAGEH..." Mian Mir another accomplished KARNI walah kamiia wallah PIR of GOD who CAN KNOCK down DELHI and LAHORE with His ONE WORD..BEGS GURU JI to GIVE his servant ( mian mir) the ISHAARA..... GURU JI again says" NAAM padarth nanak mangeh.." and STOPS MIAN MIR !!!.
ONLY SUCH an ARDASS that says" TERA BHANA MEETHA LAGEH..." shuld be Done. ALL others are Manmatt.
Bhul Chuk maaf
Dass Jarnail Singh.
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : gosh
Date: 7/24/2004 12:44 pm
bhai sahib jee i beg you, i hold your feet, please ease up on the capslock
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : Dogma
Date: 7/24/2004 1:01 pm
Some of my kamaee gets taken away? WHY?
I only do ardaas after during when I do Prakaash Di Seva or Sohkasin Di Seva. I hardly see how if I ask my Guru Sahib to grant me with the ability to fight the 5 thieves and the ability to read Gurbani Shudh with my full attention and love. I ask my Guru Sahib to keep me away from ninda chuglee and let me lead a Gursikhi Jeevan. I ask my Guru Sahib to keep waking me up at Amritvela so that I may do his Seva, and every morning I thank him for waking me up.
How is this is taking away from my kamaee...
(I'm sorry if the post sounded hostile, I'm just trying to understand how doing ardaas can be construed as a negative thing.)
Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : gosh
Date: 7/24/2004 2:50 pm
isn't chaupai sahib also a type of ardas ?
what about when it says in gurbani "this is my ardas," or "slave nanak prays"
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : sikh
Date: 7/24/2004 4:54 pm
Dogma person
i myself was only asking a question.
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/25/2004 4:36 am
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
IS "kamaii" such a porous thing that it seeps away just like footeh ghat mein paani ??
I dont think so.
And ghosts and spirits also cannot possibly take away your kamaii by just appearing at your bedside at night... that is too easy....just go around taking other people's kamaii and it is fine...utter *******.
Any kamaii one does is used up to polish ones mann off all its dirt....it is used up as we go along and not saved up or stored..... the saboon in japji sahib....is kamaii....and no one stores saboon...one uses it as soon as possible to wash the dirt away....
all these myths about kamaii etc are spread by vested interests in creating a following..... the more people you have going around saying so and so has alot of kamaii....the more your jhanda goes higher ( haumai)..but it is all a big fraud...all your kamaii is needed to wash your own mann....there is none for other people or ghosts to take away...
GURU sahibaans were the only ones who could do that....give away their kamaii because they were from akal purakh and came with stores to give away.....we all of us are humans and we are going to akal purakh and earning our kamaii along the way.....salam jawab doven kareh....the sants/babas/mahapurashs etc who spread news about their kamaii through their well paid ( or severly misguided) chelas..are trying to equal the GURUS....no human can do that...no matter how holy karni wala chardikal walh etc.
so do your own kamaii...do your own ardass.....no middlemen...no karni waleh no kamii waleh..no one can intervene to wash your dirt with his soap. in a single word NO shortcuts.
dass jarnail singh
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : Kulbir Singh
Date: 7/25/2004 5:32 am
Arshee jee has already explained in great detail that kamaayee is not something that can be taken away by anyone. Gurbani clearly says that kamaayee of gursikh cannot be taken away by thieves, cannot be burned and does not drown.
It is true that no one from outside can take away our kamaayee but this does not mean that kamaayee cannot be taken away by anyone. There is one person who can take away our kamaayee and that person is none other than ourselves. Here are some examples when our kamaayee can be taken away or gets burned:
1) Bhai Sahib Gurdass jee very beautifully states that in order to spoil a pot of milk all you need is one drop of citric acid (or vinegar). You don't need a pot of vinegar or citric acid or lemon drop in order to spoil one pot of milk. All you need is one drop. Same way, to burn 100s of tonnes of cotton all you need is a small little spark of fire.
VIGRAI CHAATA DUDH DAA, KAANJEE DEE CHUKHAI||
SAHAS MANAA ROOYEE JALAE, CHINGAAREE DHUKHAE||
Same way, to burn years of Bhagtee all you need is one kurehit. One may be doing all the bhagtee of the world but if one commits fornication (physical relationship out of wedlock), all one's kamaayee is finished. There are certain paaps like fornication that can burn massive kamaayee.
2) If one does a lot of bhagtee but seeks worldly things only, in return, then surely such kamaayee is being wasted. This does not mean that one should not seek required worldly things from Guru Sahib but if one starts doing bhagtee for a Mercedes or BMW, then surely one is wasting one's kamaayee.
Having said that, I have firm belief that if we ask for something from Guru Sahib considering ourselves beggars and Guru Sahib the true giver (daata) then no kamaayee is burned. What is the definition of a Daata? Daata is such a giver who gives without expecting anything in return. Vaheguru jee is the greatest and really the only daata in the world. If we ask from him considering him a daata, then no kamaayee is burned and one can ask for anything from him and it is granted. One must know how to ask for. Anything according to Gurmat is granted.
Daas,
Kulbir Singh
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : another singh :)
Date: 7/25/2004 2:45 pm
Dogma, i've heard that you should allways do ardass after bani to make it saffal.
Re: question about ardas
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/25/2004 7:49 pm
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.
yes.... we can burn our kamaii...and mountains of it in one instant by the bajjar paaps thet veer ji kulbir singh has stated above...in fact guru ji gobind singh ji has warned us in the most severe terms never...even in our dreams also....to go the bed of someone not your wedded !!! lust burns kamaii faster than any known substance...and if you dont have any kamaii to burn...then you go into the red faster than you can say my god !!...and then probably you will get a joon as a male spider which gets eaten during sex, or a termite male that only lives a few minutes for sex alone..or a bee that dies immediately after sex...or according to bhagat ji in gurbani you will get reborn as a prostitute so that you have nothing else to do but your favourite past time...i am sure ....positive even.... no one in his right mind wants that. if not for this mortal danger to our atma...guru ji would not have stressed so heavily on this beast within us and the khalsa panth wouldnt have made it into a bajjar kurehit.
another kamaii burner is haumai....if one gets haumaii....that is a sure sign the kamaii ...whatever amount we have..... is on the merry bonfire...gone in a flash.
i once read in some yoga book that kaam burns our waheguru given swaas the fastest...that is if you want to burn your life candle at both ends and in the middle as well..... then go for kaam...but if you want to prolong life...do naam simran
having said that in answer to "another singh" imho yes ardass must be done after bani/nitnem/whatever karaj we have arambh or completed to thank waheguru ji. we do arambhak ardass to beg waheguru ji's indulgence and forgiveness...and then do a thanksgiving ardass to thank waheguru for having helped complete our task...guru arjun himself teaches us...santa ke karaj aap khiloya...kam kravan aiya raam... as veer ji kulbir singh ahs so aptly put it waheguru is the ultimate supreme daata...everybody begs from him....so bypass all the middlemen..the charalatans...the pakhandees...and go straight to the man...the one and only man in this brahmand....and beg beg beg like you have never begged before - guru ji and gurbani is the written black and white guarantee that he will give...give and give untiringly....gurbani says: the birds have no money....yet he gives them.... there are no shops or super markets in the ocean...yet waheguru provides food for the fishes... why wouldnt we get everything we beg for as we have such big mouths and long tongues to beg !!! ( only our haumaii gets in the way...why should i beg ?? )
dass jarnail singh
