ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
photos- Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh
Posted by : kulmohan
Date: 7/23/2004 10:58 am
ns ji,
There is a camera photograph of Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh sitting along with some generals of french army in the baba baghel singh museum Gurudwara Bangala sahib in delhi.
This photograph was acquired by the museum probably 5-6 years back as I never happened to see it there before that.
Thats one of the rarest of rare photos we have and I can tell you for sure that Nalwa's physicue had an oversized fat personality.
Even Maharaja Ranjit singh is a lot different from his caricatures seen in the sikh museum so far.
Beleive me(until you would have a chance to look at that photograph) they look like any other normal human beings we see today.
these sikh leaders/parcharaks havent facilitated that photograph to be published so far - as the bread and butter of many a raagis and parcharaks is to spread all kind of myths in our community.
No wonder then, that gullible people us (for me that was about untill 5-6 years back when I saw that photograph for the first time ) generally tend to beleive in the stories like the one doing the rounds about - Hari singh Nalwa . It goes something like "Hari Singh Ji had, an average lions ways about 25-30 stone!!!!!"
May god give some sense to these Akali leaders of the sikh panth that they publish the photograph worldwide and help dispell half-truths & myths of Heriocism often attributed to our heros of the past.
regards,
a neech
Re: photos- Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh
Posted by : S Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 11:47 am
That is not a picture of Maharaja Rantjit Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa. That picture is just a hoax.
Here is what Amandeep Singh said about this picture on another forum:
[B]“Settle Down - This is not Maharajah Ranjit Singh - Both Parmjit and I are 100% certain of this, let me try to lay out the facts:
1. The earliest experiments in photography were carried out in 1839 (the year the M died) by the mid 1840s there was a type of practical portrait photgraphy - and the very first camera was bought to India by a English Surgeon called John McCosh in 1849 - 10 years after the M died. Even then the quality of the pics was incredibly grainy.
2. anyone that has worked with Antique photos (like Parm and I have) can quickly tell you that the picture there is dated c1860 - 1880 just by looking at the quality of the print
3. The main character in the photograph is Sher Ali the Governer of Sindh, he is surrounded by his Pathan Bodyguards and the British guy is Lord Minto - these are all very well known and well photographed faces of the 1860s.
4. This picture is part of a well known set of pictures that show the meeting of Lord Minto (then Gov gen of India) with Sher Ali in Amballa in 1865
5. This picture was 'discovered' as a Sikh picture by the well known fraudster C S Chan of Coventry - if he says it was the Maharajah then it definitely is not !!
Sorry to burst your bubble but that aint no Sikh maharaja
Aman"[/B]
Re: photos- Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh
Posted by : Harbhajan Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 11:56 am
Fateh Jee,
This picture was shown around england in all the papers around 5-10 years ago in Punjabi Papers. However reasearchers at musuems in England have said that if pictures were taken of Maharajah Ranjit Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa, the british would have them as they have most of Maharajah Ranjit Singh's Property and the largest cashe of documents on the Sikh empire.
Photo's have been taken of his son Prince Dalip Singh and other relatives. But none of Maharajah Ranjit Singh. The photos I think are black and white and show bearded and turbaned men with white officers and soldiers sitting and in standing poses. Unfortunatley it was proved that the South Asian men were Afghanis or Pathans and not Sikhs. One thing that made it blatant was the style of turban. It is a known fact that the Sikh Soldiers were very proud of the appearence and their Turbans and beards were kept clean and combed. The Patiala style Turban was prominant in those days among the Government and Army Sikhs, Except the Akalis. The turbans on the Asian men were of a Afghani/Phathan style. Also the asian men look in their 40s to 50s. Maharajah Jee and Hari Singh Nalwa were old men or passed away when photos were taken by East India Company or any other known photographers in India.
The Britsh have exact descriptions of Maharajah Ranjit Singh, but most of them were in his older age. They have also commented that Maharajah Jee was probably a Tall and Large youth in his Young years as a solidier. And Hari SIngh Nalwa was known to be bigger than Maharajah Jee in his younger years as His personal Bodyguard before he commanded the Khlasa Armies. Be proud Khlasa Jee that even though Maharaja jee and Hari Singh Nalwa might not be perfect Gursikhs, but they had the Love of the Khalsa in thier hearts and rose the lion spirit again after Banda Singh Bahadur.
Sorry if I offended anyone but when that picture came out I read the English descriptions and did research of maharajah Jee and Hari Singh nalwa jee and they didn't look nothing like those men at all. I hope I saw the same Photo but this one has done the rounds before.
Bhul Chukh Marf Karna
Fateh
Re: photos- Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh
Posted by : Tony Singhprano
Date: 7/23/2004 12:15 pm
the photo's are fakes..... the art of photography didn't reach lahore until the early 1850's.
There is a photograph in existance of Duleep Singh as a child of 10, taken in lahore.
i believe the characters in the Lahore Durbar are recorded very accurately both in print and in picture..... the Sikh Raj only ended 150 years ago, it's not ancient history.
Tony Singhprano
Re: photos- Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/23/2004 5:11 pm
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
Neech Ji,
This is our History and as recent as only about 150 years ago. It is well documented how hari Singh nalwa conquered and subdued the WILD regions of Pathan country, District of Hazara....Afghan Country....no one has ever conquerd these peoples before.... the British failed, the Russians failed. Dont tell me the Word based on hari singh nalwa's name just happened to join the pathan lingo...it is part of their hsitory as well.....and no pathan would be "scared" of a pot bellied fat old man as you describe Nalwa...
It is Hari Sinhg's GIFT to INDIA that the regions of PESHAWAR was Broken off from AFGHANISTAN and joined to India... a physical boundary hundreds of years old was altered...Today Peshawar is in pakistan...it would be in Afghnaistan if not for Hari Singh. ( although a fat lot of good that does us Sikhs !!....BUT it is not our fault that NEHRU gave away this land once again...)
Perish the thought that all this is "wild" imaginations of Akali "preachers"... whatever gave you that thought ?? Shah muhammed was an EYEWITTNESS and a MUSLIM writer..... and His Vaar of the Anglo- Sikh wars is a classic...He says the Sikh Forces fought so bravely that the dead britishers on the fileds looked like squeezed lemons....nearly 700 Britishers lost their lives in a battle like the one Alexander the Great had with PORUS the earlier King of Punjab.... who was also beaten by alexander through treachery just like the Sikhs by the British. No way the Sikh soldiers were "fat and pot bellied".....such men cannot fight !!! and the British wouldnt need to buy traitors like Generals lall singh teja singh
dass jarnail Singh
Re: photos- Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh
Posted by : sundeep singh
Date: 7/23/2004 9:05 pm
In my Indian history class my prof showed a photo of maharaja runjeet singh in old age with some british officers. its white proffessor who showed it in case it makes a diff to all you people who think a sikh prof would fake such a photo.
Re: photos- Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh
Posted by : S Singh
Date: 7/24/2004 7:28 am
Sundeep Singh, maybe the Sikh professor did not fake it, he was obviously mistaken into believing that photo was of Raja Ranjit SIngh and Hari SIngh Nalwa (mistakes can happen!). How can that photo be of Raja Ranjit SIngh when the first camera entered India ten years AFTER Raja Ranjit SIngh's death?
That photo that you think is of Raja Ranjit SIngh is non other than Sher Ali that governor of Sindh in 1865. Around him are his Pathan bodyguards and British officers.
That picture is a hoax. They are not Sikhs or Raja Ranjit Singh.
Re: photos- Hari singh Nalwa and Maharaja Ranjeet Singh
Posted by : Amandeep
Date: 7/26/2004 5:08 am
The only evidence that is needed about the invalidity of these photos is the date. Ranjit Singh died ten years before photogrpahy had developed to a stage that it could be practically used for portraits. Furhtermore it is blatnatly clear that the pictures in Des Pardes (in 1991) and now in Bangla Sahib are of Sher Ali.
You may be interested to know that C S Chan ( the man who had the photo published in Des Pardes and claimed it to be of Ranjit Singh) passed away just a few weeks ago.
Aman
