ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : kulmohan
Date: 7/20/2004 9:13 am
I wonder why do we need the near worshpping stories about the puratan gursikhs.
Time and again in gurudwaras as well as on the message boards we are reminded of puratan gursikhs ?
Even in ardaas some sikhs would say 'puratan gursikhan wargi rehni baini baksho ji maharaaj' .
And then we often come accross stories like one on some - puratan singhnees wearing 40kg or so of armour etc.
Are these any relevant today? When shall thew devout gursikhs learn to walk in step with the times? After all 'Puratan' means 'The Past '?
and above all gurbani says " Waqat vicharey so banda hoyey"
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : RK
Date: 7/20/2004 10:52 am
The rason sikhi is being taken over from all sides by so many influences is becuase it has lost a lot of its history. An example of this is the fact that we lost the sarbloh langar rehit in msot gurdvaras. If it wasnt for the purataan stories that we hear, how would we know who we are? How would we have something to aim for and look up to? Sikhi is something that needs to be followed according to strict rules set by guru ji, and when we hear puraatan gursikhs that accomplished so much by keeping this rehit. One of the main reasons why we as a panth have lost so much is because we lost so much of our history.
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : Gurpartap Singh
Date: 7/20/2004 10:58 am
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Veerjio,
I think there is a difference between living in olden times and learning from olden times.
When you say "Vakt vichaarey so banda hoye" can vakt not be past/present/future. Its a know fact and comon saying that learn from past mistakes. If we can learn from past mistakes then why can't we learn from past good deeds of gursikhs. Our aim is to be the best as Guru sahib wants us to be and looking at current times there aren't many who can be role models.
Fortunately our history, our past have so many chadhikala gursikhs, shaheeds when we try to understand their jeevan, their full devotion and the deeds which lead them to pooran jeevan mukti there are not many similar examples in modern days.
Gurbani mentions at many places that learn from past, but live in present, change with times but this change doesn't means that we change the basic principles, the high state of jeevan we are expected to live.
The change with times here means that don't keep riding the horse when you have bmw's and mercedes. Guru Sahib at all times during their jeevan had made sikhs the best to those times but best with high spiritual lifestyle as well.
That's the only reason why bani clearly asked us to make sure that we always read/listen/live like what our great forefathers did.
"Peeo daade kaa khol dittha khajana"
I hope this clears some doubts.
Bhul chuk di khima
Daas,
Gurpartap Singh
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : Kaur
Date: 7/20/2004 1:56 pm
I think if it wasn't for the Puratan Singhs/Singhneea, our Khalsa Panth would be ultimately lost right now. Just think about Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's time and all the sangat of Singh's and Singhnees that Bhai Sahib had. Look how chaRdi kala and inspiring those Singhs and Singhnees have been to so many of the youth today including myself.
I was personally only more inspired to take amrit after hearing stories from sangat about old puratan times and Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji and all the hardships Bhai Sahib had dealt with and yet he still remained a strong Singh of Guru Ji's.
"kulmohan" - you write, "And then we often come accross stories like one on some - puratan singhnees wearing 40kg or so of armour etc. "
Isn't this inspirational to you? Like wow. If puratan Singhnees were like that, why can't present Singhnees be like that? Why can't Singhnees today wear HUGE dumaalas and carry around HUGE shastars like they used to?
Only from the past does one learn how to make the future more promising by learning from those who already lived his/her life according to Gurmat. And that can only be done by reading and studying more about the lives of those Singhs and Singhnees in puratan times.
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : ..
Date: 7/20/2004 5:29 pm
because we learn to see how proud they were of their sikhi and how much they loved Guru Sahib. We learn to see how much they were willing to sacrifice for Sikhi and the Panth
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/20/2004 9:31 pm
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
IMHO "Gurbani in "Vkaht vicharaey so banda hoe"...is NOT baout nay specific time past/present or future...
This is akin to the English proverb: A stich in TIME saves NINE. Here TIME is not any past/present or future....
A person who takes heed of "time" Vakhat...is a banda ...otherwise he is really an "animal" as animals have no sense of time...when they see food they eat, when they feel tired they sleep...while we on the other hand...are different. AT Amritvela even when we feel sleepy.... we VICHAAR the VAKHAT and get up and od Naam japp...etc etc.
This is a superficial understanding to get the emaning of the above tuk across but of course it means much much more than just this.
Dass jarnail singh.
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : kulmohan
Date: 7/23/2004 10:16 am
Dear Sangat
Thanks for your posts it really helped this kookar.
thanks to Mr Gurpartap Singh ji - I now understand that there is a difference between living in olden times and learning from olden times.
Thanks to Kaur ji - yes the stories of sikh singhnees wearing 40 kg of armour do actually inspire the spirits.
But still I would like to suggest that we draw a decent limit to the practises of 'puratanta'and 'sarblohism' - Does any of you know that in the AKJ delhi sunday samagams - during langar, they would just throw the 'thaalis' onto the floor, such that their 'Bibek' or 'Sarb Loh pehra' doesnt get spoiled by getting touched with the hands of one who is sitting in the que for taking langar plate.
I was so much taken aback that I stopped going to their keertan programmes.
kookar as always
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : kar kirpaa sabh rayN thheevaa
Date: 7/23/2004 10:57 am
i think that's just as near to brahminism as you could get
Not touching somebody because your sarbloh pehra will get spoiled
whatever happened to chau girdh hamaarai raam kaar
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : me
Date: 7/23/2004 11:02 am
>>during langar, they would just throw the 'thaalis' onto the floor, such that their 'Bibek' or 'Sarb Loh pehra' doesnt get spoiled by getting touched with the hands of one who is sitting in the que for taking langar plate.<<
Ummm... what is wrong with this? Maybe the batey/ thaal should not be thrown, but they should not touch the person taking langar either. That seems like common sense to me.
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 11:07 am
Kulmohan,
It is langar maryada pretty much everywhere that the person giving out langar does not touch the person receiving it. So parshaday are not handed to the person, they are dropped (nicely and not too high) into the person's hands so that the person distributing's hands remain clean.
The same is the case for a thali or a bata: it is gently dropped into the person's hands or placed on the ground.
This isn't some crazy "AKJ" maryada, but a langar maryada. It just maintains cleanliness.
Re: Why worship PURATANTA?
Posted by : kulmohan
Date: 7/26/2004 6:34 am
Singh
they just don't drop thali into your hand but rather throw it onto the floor creating all that noise , you have to be there to beleive it.
pardon me for repeating the above, The intention is not one of Ninda, as I am myself no good, but all I wish is that somebody who is a regular in there programs in Delhi takes the initiative to sort it with their jathedars etc
