ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : Manmukh
Date: 7/20/2004 7:43 am
Following meetings with the Metropolitan Police, the situation is now as follows.
1. It seems likely that the police will allow the 'Rally for Islam' to take place subject to any criminal offences taking place. There will be a heavy police presence. In previous years, the organisers have been targeted by civil actions in the Courts afterwards, for breach of bye-laws because the event has not had official permission. However, this has not deterred them.
2. The Metropolitan Police will be issuing a public statement soon.
3. In addition, the police will be referring the matter to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS). A Sikh representative made the point that Sikh organisations such as the ISYF and BK have been banned although they have committed any offences or been prosecuted but groups like al-Muhajiroun and the BNP can go around inciting violence against other communities.
4. The BNP (racist right wing political party) will be holding an unofficial i.e. illegal counter demonstration the same as they did last year. HOWEVER, in addition, the police Special Branch have said that, due to the fact that Rangers FC will be playing in London on Sunday, that fans may also turn up in Trafalgar Square to show support for the BNP (historically the BNP, Rangers hooligans and Northern Irish Loyalist terrorists groups have had strong links). PLEASE NOTE - the police are monitoring forums, emails and other communication methods in relation to this situation.
5. The Hindu community have also met with the police and are planning an official counter demonstration. They said in the meeting that they will bring 10,000 people!!! Also, it was stated that they would be taking out advertisements in the Hindu press and on radio. We will have to wait and see this!
So it seems, that the Sangat who wish to attend on Sunday and show that Guru ji's nindia will not be tolerated must bear in mind the above facts. However, with Guru ji's blessing, we will emerge from this episode even stronger and united!!!
As Baba Deep Singh ji did, maybe the UK Sangat is going to draw that line in Trafalgar Square - will you cross it and be counted?
Gurfateh jio!
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/20/2004 12:51 pm
It would be far better in this instance for Sikhs to gain support of all opposing parties to this biased "Muslim" propaganda rather that walk in all guns blazing (what Baba Deep Singh did was under quite different circumstances).
My concern is that provoking Sikhs is exactly what this rally aims to do, so we get caught up in this 'bakwas' of theirs -perhaps on this front, it would be more strategic and advisable to form links with the other parties opposing this (Hindu, Christian, Shia-Muslims and Jews) to ensure a collective voice is heard by the authorities.
I hate to say it, but Sikhs making protest by themselves -let's get real, the view of the authorities "who cares?", we're too small for them to be concerned about, sad but true -on the other hand which community is present in large numbers in various Politician's jurisdictions...well, there you have it, that's why events such as this are allowed to occur...
...Let's make sure the collective sentiment against these 'fanatics' is heard.
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : sundeep
Date: 7/20/2004 1:23 pm
the 'all guns blazing' approach against this rally may help justify the kind of seige mentality that these people promote.
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : danger
Date: 7/20/2004 2:55 pm
It has been bought to the attention of the Sikh youth that the (NF)
National Front will aslso be present as they have been in the past
rallies. Pictures of our last encounter can still be seen at
http://www.nfse.co.uk/rally/rally.htm Please not that the National
Front will not be happy to see you eighter. If you are going to the
rally attend in group while there and travelling there and back. In
the last encounter you can see petrol cans, etc. Please DO NOT
TRAVEL in groups smallers than 10 or so. Please look after your
selfs as it is very likely it will kick of with the NF being there.
Please be carful and think before u do any thing.
An international Ardaas day is being held on
Saturday 24th July at 12.00pm GMT (UK) (Lunchtime).
Please let everyone know.
as we know the power of Ardass in great, let us all unite and do
ardass
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : Singh
Date: 7/20/2004 3:18 pm
Thanks for the update.
What are the plans for those who wish to go to London has a meeting point and time been arranged???
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : Anon Singh
Date: 7/21/2004 2:41 am
Incase you didnt work it out theres going to be a huge ruck on Sunday. You dont stick 100s of extremist Muslims, racist skinheads, angry Hindus and a big Jatha of charged Singhs in a small square and expect them all to hug each other.
It is VITAL every able bodied young Singh or Singhnee attends. If you dont attend and Sikhs end up looking silly, then its your fault for not making up the numbers.
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : Harpartap Singh
Date: 7/21/2004 3:26 am
VahegurujikaKhalsa, VahegurujikiFateh!
Sangat ji - we should only fear Vaheguru.
When He asks us - "Son, what did you do when you heard that ignorant people were going to slander Me?" What will we say?
All the long term stuff is good - but the bottom line is our Sikhi...
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : SinghSinghSingh!!!!!
Date: 7/21/2004 7:18 am
There is NOT going to be a huge ruck as someone said above.
There will be a strong police presence and the crowds will be controlled. We need to show our united presence and 'verbally' counter-attack or defend their claims about Guruji and Sikhi.
If anyone is looking for trouble than please do not come. We don't want or need you there!!!
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : ?/???
Date: 7/21/2004 7:45 am
WHERE ARE THE COAHES GOING FROM JSUT COVENTRY AND BIRMINGHAM !!
WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TOWNS !!!
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : jagroop singh
Date: 7/21/2004 7:48 am
Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
Sadh Sangat Jio,
As Veer 'SinghSinghSingh' ji says, hotheads are not needed and will instead do damage.
If you do wish to go along, please go in a spirit of NIRBHAU and NIRVAIR.
If Siree Guru Sahib Ji is insulted then it is Siree Guru Sahib Ji who will enable his Singhs and Singhnian to defend their Father's honour...
Whichever way that manifests, and it's nature, is known only to Vahiguru.
Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : TRIGGER
Date: 7/21/2004 4:46 pm
updates : http://free.hostdepartment.com/a/all_info/
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/22/2004 4:05 am
Jagroop Singh Bhaji,
You are quite right that hotheads are not needed, however let's be frank this type of behaviour has been going on for too long so sentiments are bound to run high, which is why I raised my concern earlier -it is certainly nothing to do with fear.
To expand, we all know that Sikhs are and have been singled as easy targets since the 9/11 events in particular and there has even been certain amounts of propaganda undertaken by extreme-Muslim organisations to aid the ignorance of the general public concernning the physical form of a Sikh with that of Bin Laden and his cronies.
This event is clearly aiming to stir up further emotions and provoke a reaction, the presence of the BNP/NF testify to that and despite Police presence, violence is definately lilkely to occur (think of May day protests in London of late or the City of London protests that occurred in the late 1990's) -what did the Police really manage to control?
OK, they were much bigger and I acknowledge that, personally I don't think there will be violence to that extent, but "situations" of violence will surely arise, albeit contained by the police, the point being that these will be snapped up by the press and guess who's pics they'll be showing on the front pages???
Think of Sher Singh during the 9/11 bombing, think of the recent Manjit Singh Kholi rape (where UK press featured pictures of him in his youth with a Turban, when the crimes he committed and his present appearence is clean shaven!) the list is numerous.
I would have hope that Sikh institutions looking into this matter and other bodies opposing it (Hindu, Shia, Jewish, Christian etc) actually co-ordinated their efforts formally under a more unified banner, this hasn't really happened, so I hpoe that the Sikhs who do go down stayed unified and keep patience close to their hearts, for it is right to protest against this action, however there is no point in "allowing" ourselves to be used for further ignorant press articles and such like -ideally, our behaviour should further strengthen the reputation of the Sikh community and help further dissolve misfounded notions concerning our Turbans and appearence.
Gur Fateh!
A Singh.
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : jagroop singh
Date: 7/22/2004 6:38 am
Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
Veer A Singh ji,
These are very valid points.
Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : and
Date: 7/22/2004 4:59 pm
what time is the rally happening!
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : GurSa Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 12:37 am
Poster now ready for distribution. Please put up in your locals Gurdwaras & distribute to Sangat
http://free.hostdepartment.com/a/all_info/Poster.htm
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : anon
Date: 7/23/2004 4:17 am
midday.
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/23/2004 4:27 am
Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe
Looks like the socialsits will eb turing up aswell on Sunday:-
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/07/295070.html
TAKE BACK THE SQUARE!
kalabine, 19.07.2004 18:51
Sunday 25th July sees a rally in Trafalgar Square at 1pm, by the Islamic
fundamentalist group Al-Mahajiroun.
The National Front have called a counter demonstration.
The new anti-fascist group Anti-Fa sees very little difference between the
fascism of the National Front and the Islamic fundamentalism of Al-Mahajiroun.
Indeed their views on gay people, Jews, Women, Trades Unionists, Anarchists etc would appear to be virtually identical.
Meet outside the national Gallery at 12.30pm.
TAKE BACK THE SQUARE!
Ken Livingstone organised today’s event. Recently he also organised a conference where one of the principal guests was Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi. Many observers have described al-Qaradawi as a moderate, whilst others see him as a fanatic. We understand that the majority of Muslims don’t share all his ideas, yet his arrival kicked up a huge kerfuffle. Far fewer Muslims share the weird ideas of more fundamentalist Islamists, whose ideas are " frankly " barking. For example, the loons of al-Mahajiroun don’t consider there to be any mosques in the UK. Just as the NF are not representative of white people, al-Mahajiroun are out on the fringes of British Islam. But just how nutty are they?
You’ll have a chance to find out in Trafalgar Square next Sunday, 25 July, when al-Mahajiroun hold a Rally for Islam. This is not a fun-filled day out for all the family, unless your family is particularly patriarchal, homophobic, sexist and misogynistic, anti-Semitic and believes in killing everyone who doesn’t agree with you. Neither is it an introduction to what you’d understand as Islam, but to a political group seeking to use Islam for their own sordid ends. To their credit, al-Mahajiroun promise some miracles in the Square! It seems that atheists, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and bizarrely socialists will renounce their ideas and embrace Islam, quite spontaneously. It should be a sight worth seeing!
The highlight of the day, though, is likely to be the appearance of the National Front, who will definitely not be converting to Islam. Many of their ideas differ little from those of al-Mahajiroun, especially as regards Jews, women and gays and lesbians. They’re not turning up to cheer on the fundies " they’ll be out for their blood. The NF will also use the day as an opportunity to demand the expulsion of all Muslims from the UK and the destruction of all mosques in Britain.
ANTIFA opposes both the obscene fascism of the National Front and the apocalyptic extremism of fundamentalist Islam. Neither offers ordinary people " already suffering from bosses, councils and landlords " any solution. We are holding a counter-demo against the NF and al-Mahajiroun, meeting outside the National Gallery at 12.30pm. We look forward to seeing you there.
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 4:29 am
BTW, just for information, this is an "ILLEGAL" rally and the presence of the BNP shouldn't be taken lightly (given that we have certain morons in our community who side with them, just because they speak out against Muslims)...
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : kulmohan
Date: 7/23/2004 4:51 am
I will be thankful if any of you hardliner sikhs can post this message onto the websites of this muslim group (al-mouh..... - can't remember the full name) trying to attract Sikh/hindu girls and convert them to Islam for marrying muslim guys (Their website was inaccessible for whatever reasons)
If any of you have a chance - please ask this group of people hellbent on mindlessly converting Hindus and Sikhs (we the kafirs) to Islam, to answer a question of mine - Why do they blindfold the people going to see the Holy Stone in Mecca ?
I as a sikh will like to remind everyone that - a sikh sees the same light in one and all - "Manas ki jaat sabhey ekey pehchanboo"
(and as I am routing this post through this egroup, one of the stricter-sikh-egroups in my opinion, I have the onus to make things clearer to my sikh brethen otherwise they may stop it from post you see- and they may also be angry with me and start describing me as a defaulter - you see)
let me say that my interpretation of - "Manas ki jaat sabhey ekey pehchanboo" - tells me to see no difference in the race, and I hate this fight between people who are Sikhs and the people who are muslims because I don't want to see any see any difference in the people who follow the muslim faith and those who follow the sikh faith or any other faith for that reason.
I would like to throw an open challenge - If their highest priest, who always knows this most closely gurarded secret of muslims - the truth behind why they would blindfold a person going to give a bosa to the Holy stone and the relation it has with sikhism, discloses that secret publically - I will convert to Islam.
********************************************************
This post would have ended before the current line, had I been less patient and clicked on the send button as soon as I finished writing this. But I read what I had just written. And now I am completely awestuck and bewildered at the differences !!!
Islam (at least this particular group viz. al-mouh...) differentiates :
It differentiates - the faithful from the kafirs.
Whearas
Sikhism integrates :- - 'Manas ki jaat sabhey ekey pehchanbo' (see one light in all ).
O my Sikh sisters reading this ( Well not all of you are my sisters - I wish to have one of you for wife you see) can't you feel the same.
Converting to Islam is only an excuse that the some people (generally a girl) would need for marrying the 'hp' Looking pakistani/muslim guys. (Comeone sikh boys you and me shall not feel elated and proud of our devotion to sikhi by blaming the girls for conversion to islam, as I know some guys from amongst us will also need this excuse of converting to Islam for the sake of polygamy)
Well back to you my sikh sisters, those of you who have a muslim boyfriend, well unlike the impractical sikhs, I won't appeal to you to drop him - after all he may turn-out to be a good/caring and loving husband.
But only as a friend I will advise you to be a good judge of the situation you find yourself into and think over all aspects including:-
-- Whether you will be comfortable to undo the basic tenants of sikhism you learnt over the last 20 years of your lives.
--Whether you will gel with all the formalities of the purdah system they may be having in their inlaws and relatives-before taking a final decision of conversion and marriage.
-- Whether you will be OK to put up with another woman as the wife of your muslim husband just incase he choses to do a second marriage after spending some time with you.
and after thinking on all these aspects if you do decide to marry the guy at all costs - Please go ahead by all means, at least - I wont try to stop you . As my guru tells me -
'Manas ki jaat sabhey ekey pehcanbo'
********************************************************
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : kulmohan
Date: 7/23/2004 5:07 am
Please don't stop my last post - it was one from my heart and mind and was meant to start a thought process amongst the gulible sikhs like those sikh-girls who were misled to convert to the Islam in 1992 and make fun of guruji and sikhi.
I also seek pardon from the sangat for being arrogant and for using unpolite language but then we the young people need a way to speak to our fellow brothers and sisters in a language they would understand.
Re: UPDATE FOR UK SANGAT - 'Rally for Islam'
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 10:37 am
Dear Kulmohan,
Just on your final point "we the young people need a way to speak to our fellow brothers and sisters in a language they would understand", which is true enought, however please note that it is our (the "young people") responsibility to raise our level of conversation and understanding higher -street speak is not 'our' speak...
