ਜਾਕਉਹਰਿਰੰਗੁਲਾਗੋਇਸੁਜੁਗਮਹਿਸੋਕਹੀਅਤਹੈਸੂਰਾ॥
Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai

ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
    View Post Listing    |    Search    

URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : urgent singh
Date: 7/14/2004 2:14 pm

This was emailed to me.

PUBLIC SIKH CONVERSIONS TO ISLAM " SUNDAY 25th JULY

On the 25th July is the Annual Rally for Islam in Trafalgar Square " Sikhs urgently needed

In 1995 Sikh girls publicly converted and made fun of the Sikh Gurus with the Muslim audience cheering and laughing; these types of activities have continued. In 2002 arrests were made as the speakers made pro-terrorism comments, relating to Bin Laden and Al-Queida. For Rally for Islam 2004 Al-Muhajiroun have decided to focus their attention on converting Hindus and Sikhs to Islam. We are the “Kufars” or disbelievers, who will burn in hellfire if we do not convert. The situation is already notorious as we know many Muslims will date and go out with Sikh girls in university, as the exposed H.U.T. plans have shown. The Real Khilafah Movement letter says “We need to send out our boys to bring the Sikh girls into the umma or community of Islam”.

The Al-Muhajiroun website has stated on their website for this event “The British public will once again witness many non-Muslims: previously Jews, Christians, Hindus & Sikhs (idol worshippers), Atheists, Socialists etc giving up their false beliefs and ideologies in order to embrace the divine way of life which Islam offers to them openly and publicly.”

They also say “As for the Sikhs, acknowledge, that as a man-made system your belief is really just a hotpot of different religions and opinions “jumbled together”.”

There will be a large Jatha of Singhs and Singhnees protesting at this event, peacefully protesting. It is absolutely vital that you attend because currently extremist Muslims believe that Sikhs are easy to convert, weak in faith and frightened of them. We will show them that Sikhs are still lions and will stand up for their faith.

Any Sikh youth who wears a kara on their arm, yet does not raise their arm in protest at this event by cowering at home, should not wear a kara at all. Any Singh or Singhnee youth who wears a dastar on their head, should remove it if their head cannot be counted at this event. All young, fit Singhs should be present if they think they are children of the Guru. We must remember the sacrifices of Guru Arjun Dev Ji for Sikhi against the Muslims, Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji protecting faith from the Muslims, Bhai Fauja Singh Ji protecting Guru Ji and the countless other Shaheeds.

Please make arrangements to get to this event, Sunday 25th July, at Trafalgar Square in Central London. We will be meeting outside the park and the Jatha will then enter to distribute literature and make their presence known. More specific details will be circulated nearer the time.

To not make our presence known at this event, turns the Khalsa lions into mice and spits on the memory of past Shaheeds.

Contact msingh_2003@hotmail.com for further information.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : £"$
Date: 7/15/2004 4:18 am


pls don't bite my head of for asking this question.

whats the point of going to this rally/meeting thing?

if people want to convert let them what can you do nothing.

why do we 'sikhs' keep trying to fight outside forces when the core of our problems are internal.

these conversions would never take place if correct parchaar was done at gurdwaras, i agreed with one thing on that muslim press release that we are more interested in bmw's and merc's and also making big shinny gurdwaras.

guru ji in his time gave the right parchaar which touched the people who then gave there lives for there sikhi, today we have lost our ways.

i wonder will any gurdwara pardaan (or committee wale) be at this rally/meeting to protest of course not he is a coward and he will be at the gurdwara on the stage requesting more money from the sangat to pay of the building loan, and when a sewadaar approaches him for use of a gurdwara room for sewa to do some sikhi related workshop or kirtan class or help with funds towards a sikhi related projected he will be told that the gurdwara can't afford it.

so instead of protesting at these rallies/marches why dosen't someone make a recording of a sikh girl or guy converting then rally/protest at your local gurdwara and show them this film and then lets see what happens!

i know i am going to be shouted down for this, but if correct funding was given towards parchaar for youth and elders we would have no conversions and mindless following babs and sants.

apologies for any offence caused.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : TRIGGER
Date: 7/15/2004 4:57 am

what exactly do you want the sikhs to protest against?
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Media Campaign
Date: 7/15/2004 5:36 am

http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_inter...&list=/home.php

Above is the press release/flyer that's being sent around London.

Please help prevent this rally from taking place by e-mailing your protests to the UK media. Below are some addresses

UK MEDIA

METRO
mail@ukmetro.co.uk

THE TIMES
HOME NEWS home.news@thetimes.co.uk

The Mirror
020 7293 3000

The Sun
news@the-sun.co.uk
London - 020 7782 4100

BBC London News
yourlondon@bbc.co.uk
Tel: 020 7224 2424

ITV NEWS (London Tonight)
editor@itn.co.uk
Telephone:+44 (0)207 833 3000


UK Homeoffice (may help not sure)
public.enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk
Telephone: 0870 000 1585
Fax: 020 7273 2065
Textphone: 020 7273 3476

Ken Livingstone
Mayor of London
020 7983 4100
mayor@london.gov.uk
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/15/2004 6:02 am


Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe

Veeer hi the reson why we shpudl rpotest is becasue of the thigns they say about sikhi pls read the following link about the event:-


http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=10020&list=/home.php

We as Sikhs shoudl attedn this event and hand out our own litreture with counter arguments agianst all teh allegations made on there web site. i agree we shoudl make video recordings of this event and have them shown at every Gurudwara in england so that our people open there eyes to what is really happening. But we shoudl go in force so that they realise we will nto take anyone discrepecting Sikhi. I personaly will be there and will brign a coach from Coventry and urge all sangat in Uk to do the same.

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : WE Need Support
Date: 7/15/2004 6:11 am

So Far,

I have just called

Ken Livingstone
Mayor of London
020 7983 4100

I have been told that Ken does not support this event and he will close the event down if they get enough Calls. SO CALL NOW!!!!!!!!!!! please.

I told them that this event will cause problems between different faiths and he agreed with us. Plus other event is also going on at the same date on the same location.


So all we need to do is get all the Cyber Sanget to call that Number 020 7983 4100, if you live in any part of the world please call, we need to stop this NOW.


SO please CALL


Just got a call back and this event is not booked in. So if they get enough calls the event will be closed.

if you are based any where in the world please call.


Ken Livingstone
Mayor of London
020 7983 4100
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/15/2004 8:09 am

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe

I have also called Ken levingstoens office and have been informed by them that the event is nothign offical and that if it does go ahead teh organisers will be prosecuted. EVERYONE EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT FROM UK NEEDS TO MAKE IT CLEAR WE WILL NOT TAKE THIS EVERYONE CALL THE MAYOR OF LONDON SO HE FEELS THE PRESSURE OF THE SIKH COMMUNITY.

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : £"$
Date: 7/15/2004 8:14 am

some clarification.

i just called the mayors office and was told that the muslim rally has no permission to hold any type of event there due to that fact that there other events booked in on the day, but also because the mayor does not support this rally or the group wishing to hold it. due to there vile views.

i was told that if they try and do anything they will be arrested and all the relevant authorities are aware of the siutation, and the hurt caused to other communities.

so i suppose this is a good thing which has occured and hopefully the authorities will further investigate these people and take appropriate justice.

waheguru ji
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : jagroop singh
Date: 7/15/2004 8:18 am

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!

Sadh Sangat Jio,

Also call the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) - 020 7939 0000

Tell them that you find the event potentially 'inciteful' and that it will lead to 'religious/racial' hatred.

Advise them that they should offer 'construtive advice' and 'suggestions' to the police station that covers Trafalgar Square, as well as to the GLA office (020 7983 4100).

Also, because Sikhs are an ethnic group in the UK, tell them that it represents hatred of another 'ethnic group'; in this case the Sikhs...Print-up the press release and quote the lines you find particulary offensive....offer to fax it to them.

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Anon
Date: 7/15/2004 9:47 am

"£"$" veerji

The reason we are going to this rally is because if like 1995 the Gurus are publicly made fun of and verbally abused, then we need to stand up as Khalsas and show the Sikh spirit.

If you would rather be at home infront of the PC then that is your decision. Bhai Fauja Singh didnt sit around when Beadbi of SGGS Ji was done.

If you fail to see why extremist Muslims handing out anti Sikh propaganda, publicly converting Sikhs and insulting hte Gurus needs to be sorted out, then I believe you have alot to learn.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : £"$
Date: 7/15/2004 10:31 am

Anon ji

thanks for the post and veer i have lots to learn and am doing so every day.

pls Anon ji tell me where in my post i said that i was not going to attend and sit at home at my pc?

where did i say that a sikh should not stand up aginst derogatory remarks made against his guru?

but as i said in my post the real problems lie within our gurghar, funny how we are quick to jump on beadbi of guru ji and sikhi from external elements yet we become deaf and dumb at the beadbi within gurghars!

you sound like a very fierce lion Anon ji who i am sure will vanquish the extermist musalmans and i hope you are very successful, maybe afterwards why not focus on your local gurdwara and try and see the real problems, and look at the diss-illusioned youth walking around not knowing much, any wonder they fall prey to the creatures lurking in the dark.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : jagjitsingh
Date: 7/15/2004 1:28 pm

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, can everyone help in this. We need to stop this event. Rather than turning up and protesting, it is far better to contact the Mayors office, and the media to register your protest. The youth did a similar thing at Kingston uni many years ago, when HUT tried to do a meeting. The dean banned them.

Who are these guys?

Al-Majaroun has the same idealogue as HUT. They are called the immigrants, and have hatred for all non-muslims, including sikhs. Among their top ranks are the Tottenham Ayatollah, who was ridiculed on national TV in a documentary. Others include the short pakistani boy from Staines, and his African friend. They rose to national prominence when they said they would go and fight for Afganistan during its war, yet they went no-where. We know them personally when they tried to disrupt a Sikh Society event at Kings University many years ago. 4 Singhs had to forcibally remove them, as they spoke against sikhi.

It is amazing that groups like ISYF and BKI have been banned, yet groups like Al-Majoroun who openly preach violence against all non-muslims are allowed to be active.

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : sikh
Date: 7/15/2004 4:05 pm

did anybody watch the program on bbc1 this evening on the bnp? i think as a counter weight to the racist views of the bnp somebody should also inform news networks of the Al-Muhajiroun press release and show that the musalmans also bring alot of these problems on themselves by the way they attack other religions and the hatred and violence they preach
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Rashminder Singh OZ
Date: 7/15/2004 9:21 pm

yeh i read the article posted by bhai tarunjeet singh ji above

yeh its not good at all but it is true somehow in some aspects like most of sikhs today follow caste system, hope we all become singh khalsa and kaur khalsa soon
and also they are rite bout the photographs made by different painters can be found everywhere and i have seen peole worshipping it.


""""" lets forget our catse system..... we are Amritdhari Singhs and Kaurs of Guru Gobindh Singh Ji Maharaaj


we should only have Singh Khalsa and kaur Khalsa following our first name

we should not have any painter made photographs of our guru's at our homes... showing thier different poses.... this is a insult to our gurus

we only have shabad guru GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAAJ""""""""""""""


Bhul Chuk Maaf

Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : sikh
Date: 7/17/2004 8:57 am

i would advise sikhs not to go. al muhajiroun is founded by the same guy who created HT bakri.

This group does not represent every muslim in the uk but entertains a massive support base in the youth.

Often you will find its hard to debate with people like these, its usually a set up to push their way down your throat, if you say anything back, you wont be tolerated. This group was also responsible for sending recruits to afghanistan, and intimidates opponents using phycological warfare. so whatever they do that affects sikhs we need to think a lil before we go and march there.

The best thing to do is what teh syaney sikhs here say contact the police.

I am questioning myself why they have resorted to bring our Guru ji into this, that is hurtful. I would request sikhs not to respond the same way on prophet mohammed. I think they thrive on this for wanting us to insult their prophet, they feed off it, perhaps the jew and west card is becoming a little outdated now in spreading their lucifers conciousness idealism.

What they say is very twisted. pashtuns ( lighter skinned north pakistani warriors) practice honour killings if their daughters run off with a mohajir (indian muslim immigrant).The pakistani jatts, rajas, mirpuris, chaudhari caste feuds result in local wars let alone attack sikhs for practicing caste. The seperate masjids may not be along caste in theory but practically gujrati muslims pray in certain mosques, while pakistanis and bengs pray in their own. We dont see it only because we sit on the outside. Recent miugrations of arab, african muslims and new converts have changed the face of mosques a little. But if sikhs went round actively converting we would also see different faces in gurdwaras.

There are 70 odd sects in islam some of which believe in living prophets, and have also evolved, so instead of attacking sikhi first why dont they look inside their own circle? secondly why are they looking at the bad side ( dehra doms) instead of sikhi?

Pir Mohammed also added charity and pilgrimage, farishtas ( devte angels) and belief in the representation of stones, to his faith , which has been practiced in hinduism long before islam and one god in christains. Yet i have rspect for pir ji and wouldnt dirty his name, but its so wrong to insult like that.

Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : sikh2
Date: 7/17/2004 3:51 pm

wgkk wgkf

i agree with sikh veer

we need to be active in media

they use media

we use media

the post by sikh was enlightening for me

we have such good writers

i do not know of any site which gives answer to what they say about sikhs

i would love to see site similar to theirs and answering point by point the things said by them

the above post was beautiful................

let us make an effort and do something on the web that it becomes so popular and every one can use it as ready refrence

common singho and bibio there are genius out there amongst uuuu

let us rise to the occasion and creat something powerful
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : jagroop singh
Date: 7/18/2004 4:00 am

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!

Sadh Sangat Jio,

The 'why i chose sikhism' site would be an ideal place to locate such articles.

In fact, the site could have a 'current responses' section where for instance this press release could be reproduced and countered in a GURMAT WAY...a bit like a breaking news section which responds to anti-Sikh activites.

If any Sevadaars of the site are reading this, please reply.

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
interesting 'profile'
Posted by : jagroop singh
Date: 7/18/2004 4:06 am

source:

Al Muhajiroun under scrutiny
By Nick Britten, Rosie Waterhouse and Sean O'Neill
(Filed: 02/05/2003)

As the inquiry into the two suicide bombers progresses, one group which will be examined is Al Muhajiroun, the extremist organisation which preaches global jihad and Islamic extremism to young British Muslims. Its voice was the loudest yesterday in praising their "martyrdom operation".

Omar Bakri Mohammed, the self-styled "emir" of Al Muhajiroun, said: "These two brothers have drawn a divine road map, one which is drawn in blood. We pray to God to accept one brother as a martyr. I am very proud of the fact that the Muslims grow closer everyday, that the Muslim land is one land and there is no more nationalism or Arabism."

However, Bakri Mohammed, a Syrian based in Tottenham, north London, was quick to add that neither Hanif nor Sharif were members of his group nor were they recruited by him to go abroad and fight the jihad.

But equally he is proud of his part in radicalising the young Muslim men of their generation with his inflammatory propaganda. "There are many young Muslims from Britain who have died in Kashmir and Chechnya and Afghanistan - that they are now going to Palestine is not a surprise," he said.

It remains unclear how well Hanif and Sharif knew each other before they undertook their suicide mission, but Bakri Mohammed and his Al Muhajiroun movement is a possible common landmark on the journey to radical and violent Islam taken by both bombers.

In the late 1990s, Al Muhajiroun held meetings at the Hounslow Masjid, where Hanif and his family were worshippers.

"We put a stop to it when we found out," said Mr Chachia. "The activities were stopped about four years ago when we found out they were more political than religious. We are not connected in any way with Al Muhajiroun - they have no part to play in this mosque. There are no political activities whatsoever allowed in this mosque." However, there are many other venues in London and nearby Slough where Al Muhajiroun continued to deliver its message to impressionable youths.

The group was also active in Derby, leafletting outside mosques and holding meetings in community centres. It has its own office and a media spokesman in the town. Bakri Mohammed said: "I go to Derby almost every week to teach Islam, we have a strong following there."

At one meeting in Derby in 2000, he called on Muslims to send armies "to fight the aggressors and occupiers and establish the Khilafah [Islamic state]". He also issued a "fatwa", demanding that "the Israeli cancer in Palestine must be uprooted".

Anjem Choudary, Al Muhajiroun's spokesman, said he recognised Sharif as "a familiar face" among the Muslim community in Derby but denied that he was a member of the organisation. If they were associated with the group, they would not be the first of its members to be inspired by its language and literature to turn to extremism.

Hassan Butt, a member of Al Muhajiroun, is under investigation by police after boasting of recruiting hundreds of young Britons to fight for the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Mohammed Bilal, a 24-year-old from Birmingham who died in a suicide car bombing at an Indian Army barracks in Kashmir, is also thought to have had links with the group.

A growing fear among police and security sources here is that the next British suicide bomber may choose to attack a target closer to home.

- 8 September 2002: London to host Islamic 'celebration' of Sept 11
- 19 December 2001: Briton's boast of recruiting for bin Laden may lead to charges
- 29 December 2000: Young Britons heed the call to arms for holy war
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : bikramjit singh
Date: 7/18/2004 5:30 am

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Here is are 2 emails from the sikh_news_discussion mailing list.

Sardar Gurmukh Singh is representative of the sikh secretariate. Hopefully the debate on Panjab radio will give the latest update on what the situation is at the moment. It will be on today at 8pm UK time.


----------------------------

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I shall be talking to Bhai Jasvir Singh on Panjab Radio about this and
related topics this evening after 8.00 (Sunday). The momentum to get
this
irresponsible rally must not be lost and we are appealing to all
responsible
Islamic leaders to join us in total condemnation of such provocative
acts in
future,

Gurmukh Singh


-------------------------------------------

Further update by Bhai Harjinder Singh from Heston

------------------------
Sadh Sangat Jio,

Vahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

There has been a good and responsible discussion on the subject of the Islamic rally in London on July 25 so far.

Bhai Gurmukh Singh was not able to make his contribution over the last few days as his system is down, but those that want to hear his views can tune in to Panjab Radio at about 8 pm tonight.

If you think that you have items that you need to discuss urgently with Gurmukh Singh Ji, you can ring him on 020 8 737 0866.

Gurfateh,

Harjinder Singh
Heston UK



-------------------------------


You can listen to Panjab radio at their site

http://www.panjabradio.co.uk/


GurFateh

Bikramjit Singh
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : S SINGH
Date: 7/18/2004 4:04 pm

Want's the point going to the rally, when 95% of our youngsters don't even know there religion & don't care who they are?, what they are?. US SIKH'S ARE FALLING DOWN (ESPICALLY THE KNEW GENERATION). Most of our sikh's don't even care no more? there more in to money, cars & looking after them selves.

Most of sikh parent's are more in to working & earining money & don't even know where there kids are & the girl run's away with muslim guy. it's up to the parent's & the people you hang around with (freinds). Your friend can put you in wrong position as well, they can force you to go out with a paki because he good looking, money, nice car this espically for the sikh girls.

When we say to sikh girls why are you going muslim guy, they reply is "IT'S MY LIFE WHY DO YOU CARE". what reply can we give? If the sikh parent's don't care why should we bother to help the girls then?

Majority of sikh girls are spolit from sikh guy's & also depending on your friend you hang out with as mentioned before.

There are sikh guys who are more in to drinking & smoking & don't even look after there family & girl as usual runs away with **admin cut**.

We are also back stabbing our own brothers over money, we are also spoling our sisters, by taking for a drink in the bar & clubbing, we should be teaching each other's about our religion & helping 1 another.

How many muslim girls & boys would you think would die for there religion & are more in to there religion? 95% i think

How many sikh gilrs & boys would you think would die for there religion & are more into there religion ? hard question to answere .

Muslim girls & boys are tought about there religion from day 1. Us sikh's have tought drink & money.

Us sikh's can be BIG BOYZ, but that depends on you, how you want our religion & sikh culture to be?
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Khalid
Date: 7/18/2004 11:12 pm


Dear Sikh Friends

I am a muslim and would like to apologize on behalf of Muslims for the cracknut and hurful message of al-muhajiron website. This is an extremist website that does not respresent Islam in the least bit. It is an extremist site and belongs to an ultra-extremist group. Please ignore it.

Khalid
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : S. Kaur
Date: 7/19/2004 2:12 am

I have just read all your views about this event... and how much shame it brings to our religion and upon ourselves.

I am totally disgusted with the fact that sikh girls can even get into the jaal of muslims.... they do all kinds of things like brainwash u into believing in what they think is right.. which is not the case.

It obviously shows that girls who do this have no knowledge in their own religion, and i blame the parents for that.
Eg, my parents took me to the gurdwara every sunday, and it was good listening to the katha which the gyani does, and very interesting too, as he would explain stories about our gurus.

My blood really boils when i see sikh girls with paki's.

About a month ago on my usual trip to the gurdwara, a gurdwara pardaan was giving a speech about a broadcast on punjab radio.
Apparently a girl comes on the line who's dad was sikh and her mom muslim. The presenter asked her what religion she was, and the girl said islam, and then the presenter asked why?... (which was asking for insulting comments) then the girl came out with very insulting and disgusting comments about sikhism ....comments that i cant even bring myself to say.
Comments along the lines of " Nanak is a devil" - not even using the name Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.... ALOT was said, and the program still continued, whereas it should have been cut off.....

Overall this obviously shows that her dad hasnt taught her to believe in sikhism...which leaving the mother to feed her crap and hatred about our religon. Usually its the man who is the dominant one and thats the religon
his children is brought up in. But not in this case.

This is an utter dissapointment......

Did anyone listen to the radio program yesterday evening?
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : sikh
Date: 7/19/2004 6:07 am

to all sangat members who have posted on this thread please dont use racist language like 'paki's' it is insulting and a generalisation against all muslim people. admin i think you guys should be a bit more careful when vetting posts, are you trying to create a 'paki' bashing forum?

we have just had a muslim veer who has posted an apology and regardless of the actions of a few lets not tarnish and degrade ourselves and bring ourselves down to there level, this does not look good in the wider community.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : jagroop singh
Date: 7/19/2004 9:15 am

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!

Veer / Bhain 'sikh' ji,

Well done for stating this fact...

It seems that even when some people who post on this forum wish to find Gursikhi, their anger cannot stop them from saying such munmukh things.

Admin, this happened once before where the word 'p*ki' was used several times on a particular thread. For some reason i got the impression you would ensure it didn't happen again...it may be my mistake.

PLEASE in the spirit of Gurmat consider deleting it from all future posts - it is against Gurmat to use such disgusting words...would we also allow the word ' ni*ger' on this forum? Ask yourselves.

Veer Khalid ji, as a Muslim of the Prophet Muhammad, has stated that Al Muhajiroun are a small group of extremists who do not represent Islam and has even had the sense of humilty to apologise on their behalf...thak you Veer ji.

Those wo have used the word 'pa*i' should now apologise to Veer Khalid ji who you have perhaps offended without even realising.

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/19/2004 9:55 am

Dear "Sikh", whilst your point is well made, you'll probably find that many here will find you to be making, "silk purses" out of "sow's ears " by picking on this one item and 'analysing' it.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : GurSa Singh
Date: 7/19/2004 10:28 am

REMEMBER.

We must keep the pressure.

Ken Livingstone mayor@london.co.uk tel: 020 7983 4100

He must release a statement condemning the rally, and a plan of action in collaboration with the Met Police to stop it.

Metropolitan Police Authority membersservices@mpa.gov.uk tel: 020 7202 0184

They must provide reassurance with a constructive plan of action to make sure this illegal rally does not happen.

Commission for Racial Equality info@cre.gov.uk tel: 020 7939 0000

They must condemn the press statement and provide support to the Sikh Organisations involved in stopping this rally.

Your Local MP

Please email, ring, and arrange a meeting with your local MP to raise this issue in the House of Commons. They all have websites with contact details email & phone numbers.

Khalsa ji we must stop this public humiliation of our Religion and Human Rights. We have less than 1 week!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Admin
Date: 7/19/2004 10:47 am

We apologise that some of the racial slurs escaped through our filters. We will try to be more vigilant in the future.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Admin
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Rabinder K Koul
Date: 7/19/2004 3:08 pm

Dear Sir:
I am a Kashmiri Hindu, who feels strongly indebted to the Sikh Gurus for having laid their lives to save Kashmiri Hindus, from the onslaught of forcible conversions from Muslims.

The protest marches etc. will be usefull in focussing the attention of both Sikh, Hindu and other non-muslim communities towards the acts of Muslim groups to humiliate non-Muslim communities. So should be under taken. In my openion cooperations with other groups like Hindus will be usefull too.

But all said and done if Hindu and Sikh girls are lured by Muslims publicaly, it only indicates to the anchorless raising up of our childern. To be world citizen is good, but that citizenship and universal brotherhood flows from family down ward to community etc. Thus Hindu/Sikh community leaders need to think hard and long as to why their children don't want to hold to their ancesteral traditions.
Rabinder
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Hindu Sitah
Date: 7/19/2004 5:27 pm

LOOK AT THE FLYER CIRCULATED IN LONDON MOSQUES http://hinduunity.org/bewaregirls.htm


A WARNING TO HINDU & SIKH GIRLS!

THE MUSLIMS WON'T REST UNTIL THEY COVERT YOU TO ISLAM!
£10,000 REWARDS ARE BEING GIVEN TO MUSLIM YOUTHS BY ISLAMIC
ORGANIZATIONS IN U.K. TO ANY MUSLIM BOY WHO CAN CONVERT
A HINDU OR SIKH GIRL. THEY ARE ON THE PROWL FOR GULLIBLE
HINDU GIRLS. BEWARE!

BE CAREFUL OF BEING TRAPPED INTO HAVING RELATIONSHIPS WITH
MUSLIMS BOYS IN YOUR SCHOOL AND COLLEGE. THE LOVE THEY
SHOW IS LOVE BASED ON AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE. TO GET YOU TO ACCEPT
ISLAM. HINDU GIRLS HAVE SUFFERED DIRE CONSEQUENCES FROM THESE
MUSLIM MEN WHO PROMISE TO LOVE THEM BUT TREAT THEM LIKE DOGS!

IF YOU MARRY A MUSLIM MAN AND YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR IDENTITY, YOUR
RELIGION, YOUR CULTURE, THEY WILL STOP YOU FROM MEETING YOUR MOTHER
AND YOUR FATHER AND YOU WILL EVENTUALLY BE BARRED FROM MEETING
ANY FAMILY MEMBER. THE CHOICE IS YOURS!

BELOW IS A LEAFLET WE PICKED UP FROM A UNIVERSITY IN COLLEGE WHICH
WAS BEING DISTRIBUTED TO MUSLIM YOUTHSurgent singh wrote:

> This was emailed to me.
>
> PUBLIC SIKH CONVERSIONS TO ISLAM – SUNDAY 25th JULY
>
> On the 25th July is the Annual Rally for Islam in Trafalgar
> Square – Sikhs urgently needed
>
> In 1995 Sikh girls publicly converted and made fun of the Sikh
> Gurus with the Muslim audience cheering and laughing; these
> types of activities have continued. In 2002 arrests were made
> as the speakers made pro-terrorism comments, relating to Bin
> Laden and Al-Queida. For Rally for Islam 2004 Al-Muhajiroun
> have decided to focus their attention on converting Hindus and
> Sikhs to Islam. We are the “Kufars” or disbelievers, who will
> burn in hellfire if we do not convert. The situation is already
> notorious as we know many Muslims will date and go out with
> Sikh girls in university, as the exposed H.U.T. plans have
> shown. The Real Khilafah Movement letter says “We need to send
> out our boys to bring the Sikh girls into the umma or community
> of Islam”.
>
> The Al-Muhajiroun website has stated on their website for this
> event “The British public will once again witness many
> non-Muslims: previously Jews, Christians, Hindus & Sikhs (idol
> worshippers), Atheists, Socialists etc giving up their false
> beliefs and ideologies in order to embrace the divine way of
> life which Islam offers to them openly and publicly.”
>
> They also say “As for the Sikhs, acknowledge, that as a
> man-made system your belief is really just a hotpot of
> different religions and opinions “jumbled together”.”
>
> There will be a large Jatha of Singhs and Singhnees protesting
> at this event, peacefully protesting. It is absolutely vital
> that you attend because currently extremist Muslims believe
> that Sikhs are easy to convert, weak in faith and frightened of
> them. We will show them that Sikhs are still lions and will
> stand up for their faith.
>
> Any Sikh youth who wears a kara on their arm, yet does not
> raise their arm in protest at this event by cowering at home,
> should not wear a kara at all. Any Singh or Singhnee youth who
> wears a dastar on their head, should remove it if their head
> cannot be counted at this event. All young, fit Singhs should
> be present if they think they are children of the Guru. We must
> remember the sacrifices of Guru Arjun Dev Ji for Sikhi against
> the Muslims, Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji protecting faith from the
> Muslims, Bhai Fauja Singh Ji protecting Guru Ji and the
> countless other Shaheeds.
>
> Please make arrangements to get to this event, Sunday 25th
> July, at Trafalgar Square in Central London. We will be meeting
> outside the park and the Jatha will then enter to distribute
> literature and make their presence known. More specific details
> will be circulated nearer the time.
>
> To not make our presence known at this event, turns the Khalsa
> lions into mice and spits on the memory of past Shaheeds.
>
> Contact msingh_2003@hotmail.com for further information.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Hindu Sitah
Date: 7/19/2004 5:48 pm

LOOK AT THE FLYER CIRCULATED IN LONDON MOSQUES http://hinduunity.org/bewaregirls.htm


A WARNING TO HINDU & SIKH GIRLS!

THE MUSLIMS WON'T REST UNTIL THEY COVERT YOU TO ISLAM!
£10,000 REWARDS ARE BEING GIVEN TO MUSLIM YOUTHS BY ISLAMIC
ORGANIZATIONS IN U.K. TO ANY MUSLIM BOY WHO CAN CONVERT
A HINDU OR SIKH GIRL. THEY ARE ON THE PROWL FOR GULLIBLE
HINDU GIRLS. BEWARE!

BE CAREFUL OF BEING TRAPPED INTO HAVING RELATIONSHIPS WITH
MUSLIMS BOYS IN YOUR SCHOOL AND COLLEGE. THE LOVE THEY
SHOW IS LOVE BASED ON AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE. TO GET YOU TO ACCEPT
ISLAM. HINDU GIRLS HAVE SUFFERED DIRE CONSEQUENCES FROM THESE
MUSLIM MEN WHO PROMISE TO LOVE THEM BUT TREAT THEM LIKE DOGS!

IF YOU MARRY A MUSLIM MAN AND YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR IDENTITY, YOUR
RELIGION, YOUR CULTURE, THEY WILL STOP YOU FROM MEETING YOUR MOTHER
AND YOUR FATHER AND YOU WILL EVENTUALLY BE BARRED FROM MEETING
ANY FAMILY MEMBER. THE CHOICE IS YOURS!

BELOW IS A LEAFLET WE PICKED UP FROM A UNIVERSITY IN COLLEGE WHICH
WAS BEING DISTRIBUTED TO MUSLIM YOUTHSurgent singh wrote:

Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Joshi C. Haran
Date: 7/19/2004 11:43 pm

Dear Ones,
In these testing times it is more important to understand Spirituality and then tell the children what is the relevance of their religion. That religion is now divorced from Spirituality is what has created all the problems.

Allah is the most merciful and Benevolent! Can He advocate Jihad?. Obviously it was includeD by some power moNger later for his own advantage. It cannot be the word of Allah.

Even Mohammed taught only of One God. And he also wanted everyone to believe in one God. He said not to worship idols so that man will not get divided in the name of the idol. But even without using an idol to worship they have all forms of idol. Their mosque has a particular form! Is it not an idol?

Religion should be understood scientifically. God is the core of everyone's existence.

Let us understand this:

This can be understood if you look at the manifest world and its step-by-step progression to the unmanifest. From the gross material world one can progress to the compounds, molecules, atoms and to fundamental particles. Then knowing that particle wave duality exists the next step would be the gross waves of energy and subtler waves of human consciousness, cosmic consciousness universal consciousness and the AUM waves and beyond which is the unmanifest perfection. (imagine a straight line) This unmanisfest existence is the One God of all religions!

One thing to be appreciated here is the simultaneous existence of the manifest and the unmanifest. If you understand that in the compounds atoms are still atoms and that in atoms the fundamental particles are still fundamental particles and that particles also retain its wave nature,(wave particle duality is an accepted fact) it should not be difficult for you to accept that the unmanifest retains its unmanifest nature even when it manifests.

In your human consciousness level you can perceive yourself only as material body. But as your consciousness level becomes subtler you will be able to perceive yourself as molecules and then as light or waves. Paramahansa Yogananda explains this aspect in the book Autobiography of a Yogi when he describes his cosmic experiences. And finally, one could become unmanifest where he will not be able to distinguish himself from the whole of existence. And this total oneness is called Vidya and all other knowledge at the dual level is called Avidya. People who have reached the Vidya level are the Masters like Krishna Jesus and Mohammed. But those who followed never undestood what they taught and to gain power misinterpreted the teachings of the masters.

If you are able to appreciate this then you will know that all the leaders of the Semetic religion talk only nonsense and has no understanding of what their Masters were talking.

I hope this scientific understanding of religion is the need of the day! Then no sikh girl will want to become a Muslim or MUSLIM WANT TO CONVERT A SIKH!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Joshi C. Haran
Date: 7/20/2004 12:00 am

It is important to tell our children the true scientific aspect of religion. Let them all understand what true religion is. The present crisis is that religion now stands divorced from spirituality
.
Let us understand what true religion could be:

This can be understood if you look at the manifest world and its step-by-step progression to the unmanifest. From the gross material world one can progress to the compounds, molecules, atoms and to fundamental particles. Then knowing that particle wave duality exists the next step would be the gross waves of energy and subtler waves of human consciousness, cosmic consciousness universal consciousness and the AUM waves and beyond which is the unmanifest perfection. This unmanifest perfection is the ONE GOD of all religions.

One thing to be appreciated here is the simultaneous existence of the manifest and the unmanifest. If you understand that in the compounds atoms are still atoms and that in atoms the fundamental particles are still fundamental particles and that particles also retain its wave nature, it should not be difficult for you to accept that the unmanifest retains its unmanifest nature even when it manifests.

In your human consciousness level you can perceive yourself only as material body. But as your consciousness level becomes subtler you will be able to perceive yourself as molecules and then as light or waves. Paramahansa Yogananda explains this aspect in the book Autobiography of a Yogi when he describes his cosmic experiences. And finally, one could become unmanifest where he will not be able to distinguish himself from the whole of existence. And this total oneness is called Vidya and all other knowledge at the dual level is called Avidya. One who has attained Vidya becomes a Master Like Krishna Jesus and Mohammad. But the followers are not able to understand this and what they speak at the spiritual level is interepreted at the Avidya level and there lies the reason for all misunderstanding. The only way is for each one to reach Vidya. and it can be attained only by deep meditation.
Know your Religion
Posted by : Joshi C. Haran
Date: 7/20/2004 12:06 am

Religion should be understood Scientifically.

This can be understood if you look at the manifest world and its step-by-step progression to the unmanifest. From the gross material world one can progress to the compounds, molecules, atoms and to fundamental particles. Then knowing that particle wave duality exists the next step would be the gross waves of energy and subtler waves of human consciousness, cosmic consciousness universal consciousness and the AUM waves and beyond which is the unmanifest perfection. And this is the ONE GOD of all religions.

One thing to be appreciated here is the simultaneous existence of the manifest and the unmanifest. If you understand that in the compounds atoms are still atoms and that in atoms the fundamental particles are still fundamental particles and that particles also retain its wave nature, it should not be difficult for you to accept that the unmanifest retains its unmanifest nature even when it manifests.

In your human consciousness level you can perceive yourself only as material body. But as your consciousness level becomes subtler you will be able to perceive yourself as molecules and then as light or waves. Paramahansa Yogananda explains this aspect in the book Autobiography of a Yogi when he describes his cosmic experiences. And finally, one could become unmanifest where he will not be able to distinguish himself from the whole of existence. And this total oneness is called Vidya and all other knowledge at the dual level is called Avidya. All those who reach this Vidya level are called realized masters. Jesus Mohammed and fall into that category. And even in the present day also there are lot of realized masters like .....
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : singh
Date: 7/20/2004 8:11 am

in many ways even when u try and talk to these girls and tell them what is hapening and whyy these muslim boys are dating them they just shout and yell expletives at you, so in some ways i feel that we should just let them carry on in these relationships and let them burn........but then i do feel pity towards them, so we must all unite and work to make this siutation better, any contacts or info on how many singhs going down to the rally, where we will be meeting etc.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : @@@
Date: 7/20/2004 8:30 am

Following meetings with the Metropolitan Police, the situation is now as follows.

1. It seems likely that the police will allow the 'Rally for Islam' to take place subject to any criminal offences taking place. There will be a heavy police presence. In previous years, the organisers have been targeted by civil actions in the Courts afterwards, for breach of bye-laws because the event has not had official permission. However, this has not deterred them.

2. The Metropolitan Police will be issuing a public statement soon.

3. In addition, the police will be referring the matter to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS). A Sikh representative made the point that Sikh organisations such as the ISYF and BK have been banned although they have committed any offences or been prosecuted but groups like al-Muhajiroun and the BNP can go around inciting violence against other communities.

4. The BNP (racist right wing political party) will be holding an unofficial i.e. illegal counter demonstration the same as they did last year. HOWEVER, in addition, the police Special Branch have said that, due to the fact that Rangers FC will be playing in London on Sunday, that fans may also turn up in Trafalgar Square to show support for the BNP (historically the BNP, Rangers hooligans and Northern Irish Loyalist terrorists groups have had strong links). PLEASE NOTE - the police are monitoring forums, emails and other communication methods in relation to this situation.

5. The Hindu community have also met with the police and are planning an official counter demonstration. They said in the meeting that they will bring 10,000 people!!! Also, it was stated that they would be taking out advertisements in the Hindu press and on radio. We will have to wait and see this!


So it seems, that the Sangat who wish to attend on Sunday and show that Guru ji's nindia will not be tolerated must bear in mind the above facts. However, with Guru ji's blessing, we will emerge from this episode even stronger and united!!!

As Baba Deep Singh ji did, maybe the UK Sangat is going to draw that line in Trafalgar Square - will you cross it and be counted?

Gurfateh jio!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/20/2004 9:23 am

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe


There is a coachleaving from Coventry, I urge any other Singhs who can call them selves Singhs to arrange transport from your locla Gurudwara and make sure you are there. The fact that this event is already getting press attention means that we can not and will not let these so called "muslims " dis-respect our Guru's. Let us all pray to Guru ji that this event does not go ahead becasue if it does and they do ssay soemthing insulting I hate to think what will take place in Trafalgar Square.

The Mayor of London openly welcomed the muslim cleric in to britaitn the same cleric that said ti was the duty of muslims to do suicide bombings, that it's ok to beat your wife, that 9/11 was a good thing. Knwo when you call the Mayor of London they deny any knowledge that this event is going to take place yet the metroplitan police have sadi clearly that yes the event is taking palce and there will be a police presence.

@@@ has said :-

As Baba Deep Singh ji did, maybe the UK Sangat is going to draw that line in Trafalgar Square - will you cross it and be counted?

This is the bottom line , we all know th eevent is taking place, we all know what they are gunna say casue they say it every year , so who is gunna be there to stand up for Sikhi? and who are gunna be working ? or gunn abe to busy etc...?


Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : CovSingh
Date: 7/20/2004 10:37 am

Tarunjeet Singh.
Could you please tell the Coventry Sangat where and when the coaches will be leaving from as we have many in support.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : CovSingh
Date: 7/20/2004 1:55 pm

FAO: Tarunjeet Singh.
Also for those wishing to make there own way, what time should we meet at Trafalgar square and what time is the Rally for Islam due to start and end?
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/21/2004 1:48 am

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ke Fateh.

As far as i know, this event on sunday is still taking place. I rang the organisers and they said it is still taking place. Those of you who would like to participate in the demonstration, there are coach(es) leaving from coventry at 7am sharp. Then the meet up point is Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Park avenue, Southall at 9am. There is also a coach leaving from Smethwick Gurdwara. We need to go and make our presence felt and uphold the respect of our guru's.

The dress code is blue dastar (whether you have long hair or not), black/blue clothes (preferbly bana).

UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL

For more info for the Coventry coach ring: 07930196446 / 07929977662
For more info for the Smethwick coach ring: 07958318032
Or visit: http://free.hostdepartment.com/a/all_info/

P.S. NO TROUBLE MAKERS ALLOWED

We are not there to cause trouble! We are going because we are going to uphold the respect of our Guru's. If some Muslim fanatics are going to go on stage are speak nonsense about OUR Sikhi then we need to go and correct the blastphomy.


Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ke Fateh.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Abu Luqman
Date: 7/21/2004 2:33 am

I have read all your messages on this forum and as one of the organisers of this Rally I would like to invite all of you to attend it and engage in a decent and interesting discussion and debate on the way forward for mankind.

Surely very religion or ideology cannot be correct, otherwise we would be putting the satan-worshipper together with the one who worships God.

With regard to the event in 1995, I happened to be one of the legal observers on that day and I would like to make it clear that I have no recollection whatsoever that anyone mentioned the Gurus in any derogatory way. This is not the tradition of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) i.e. to insult the figures of worship of other religions, rather we are more interested to invite you to accept the beauty and perfection of Islam.

As for the fact that we might be paying £10,000 for people to embrace Islam or that young Sikh or Hindu girls are being targetted by Muslim youth by getting them drunk, this is nonsense and in fact an insult to your young girls if you believe that they are that fickle to just accept Islam from someone clearly not practising.

All this being said - we have had rallies in Trafalgar Square for the last 9 years and every year many people embrace Islam on the day. In 1995 around 19 people accepted Islam on the day alhamdulillah (praise be to Allah). Surely if we were really preaching hatred and calling for war (as some people would have you believe) on the square, then this would obviously not be the situation.

This particular Rally has been entitled 'Challengig freedom' and on the day we expect to raise four Gazeebos where each of the four freedoms (personal, ownership, worship and expression) will be refuted and debated.

I therefore invite all Sikhs and Hindus and people of other religions to come down to the Square and to engage with us in intellectual debate and discussion - let the truth prevail on this day. If you believe that you have the truth and a superior belief or ideology surely you would want to share that with others?

Feel free to contact me for more details on the number below

07956 600 569

Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Anon Singh
Date: 7/21/2004 2:42 am

Starts at 12 midday.

Get there at 11-11.30.

Ends at 6 but has finished early in past years due to big rucks occuring.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Harpartap Singh
Date: 7/21/2004 3:23 am

VahegurujikaKhalsa, VahegurujikiFateh!

This is a press release from the Sikh Federation today - Note what is says about the Hindu community 'leaders':

AL-MUHAJIROUN SHOULD BE PROSECUTED AND BANNED

In a meeting with police at New Scotland Yard on 19 July Sikhs expressed their disgust at the lack of action against Al-Muhajiroun. There has been considerable publicity and concern about the "Annual Rally for Islam" to take place on 25 July in Trafalgar Square. The deep concern in the Sikh community has been raised as Al-Muhajiroun has issued a press release inviting Sikhs and Hindus to covert to Islam and making derogatory comments that amount to incitement to racial hatred against the Sikhs.

A spokesperson for the Sikh Federation (UK) said: "Al-Muhajiroun do not have permission to hold a rally. Trafalgar Square has in fact been booked to host an opera. However, the Mayor for London, the Metropolitan Police and others have had many complaints and we believe they will take appropriate actions against the 50 to 60 Al-Muhajiroun activists that are expected to take part in what many believe will be a non-event that has not been sanctioned."

"The Metropolitan Police have asked the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to examine material produced by Al-Muhajiroun and to prosecute if it amounts to incitement to racial hatred against the Sikhs. We have also been informed that the British National Party and National Front are likely to be out in large numbers to hold a counter protest. As far as we are concerned Al-Muhajiroun are no different to the likes of the BNP. We have urged Special Branch and others involved in the proscription process to examine the possibility for such groups to be banned as they are a menace to society and must be denied the opportunity to terrorise law abiding citizens and spread hatred."

The Hindu community had threatened to hold a march and rally to protest where they promised to bring over 10,000. However, we have learnt that they have now urged members of the Hindu community NOT to congregate at Trafalgar Square.

An official protest is not being organised by the Sikh community as they believe the CPS and Police will now be forced to take actions against Al-Muhajiroun. However, feelings in the Sikh community are running very high as actions by the CPS and Police are long overdue. Therefore, some Sikhs are expected to be present to observe the events at Trafalgar Square and challenge those that decide to make derogatory comments against Sikhs that amount to incitement to racial hatred. One person said: "Perhaps we should leave to it to Al-Muhajiroun and the BNP to decide for themselves who is the greater evil."



Gurjeet Singh
National Press Secretary
Sikh Federation (UK)
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : GurSa Singh
Date: 7/21/2004 3:34 am

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Meeting for East London Sangat this evening at 7.30pm @ Gurdwara Singh Sabha, High Road, Goodmayes, Ilford in the Gym.

Please attend to discuss all your issues and concerns.


Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Harpartap Singh
Date: 7/21/2004 6:33 am

VahegurujikaKhalsa, VahegurujikiFateh!

There will be a meeting tonight Seven Kings Gurdwara tonight at 730 in the gym to discuss the situation and what action teh local Sangat will be taking. Please pass on the word...

PLUS This was forwarded to me:

Sunrise Radio will be covering the latest as regards the so-called "Rally for Islam" planned for Sunday 25 July in Trafalgar Square in their 30 minute programme which starts at 4.00 pm. (Wednesday 22 July). Jagtar Singh of the Sikh Federation (UK) will be interviewed on the programme and providing an update on why Sikhs are upset with the event, which has not been sanctioned. The interview is likely to cover the actions the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and Metropolitan Police are or will be taking.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/21/2004 7:01 am

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ke Fateh.

As far as i know, this event on sunday is still taking place. I rang the organisers and they said it is still taking place. Those of you who would like to participate in the demonstration, there are coach(es) leaving from coventry at 7am sharp. Then the meet up point is Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Park avenue, Southall at 9am. There is also a coach leaving from Smethwick Gurdwara. We need to go and make our presence felt and uphold the respect of our guru's.

The dress code is blue dastar (whether you have long hair or not), black/blue clothes (preferbly bana).

UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL

For more info for the Coventry coach ring: 07930196446 / 07929977662
For more info for the Smethwick coach ring: 07958318032
Or visit: http://free.hostdepartment.com/a/all_info/

P.S. NO TROUBLE MAKERS ALLOWED

We are not there to cause trouble! We are going because we are going to uphold the respect of our Guru's. If some Muslim fanatics are going to go on stage are speak nonsense about OUR Sikhi then we need to go and correct the blastphomy.


Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ke Fateh.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/21/2004 8:57 am

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ke Fateh.

The SInghs up Niorth are usually the ones that have th emost problems with these fanaticlal muslims yet I haven't heard that they have arranged any coaches, anyone form bradford ? leeds? How about Liecester only got 20,000 Sikhs any other coashes????

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ke Fateh.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : jagroop singh
Date: 7/21/2004 10:53 am

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
A Salaam Aliekum

Dear Veer/Brother 'Abu Lugman' ji,

Please let me respond to some of your statements:

>'I have read all your messages on this forum and as one of the organisers of this Rally I would like to invite all of you to attend it and engage in a decent and interesting discussion and debate on the way forward for mankind'.

Sadly, the organisation you claim to be a member of has issued a press release which cannot be described as 'decent' but is instead 'inciteful'. Hopefully, on the day, your organisation will change tact and truly decide to communicate with other human beings in a 'decent' manner.

>'Surely very religion or ideology cannot be correct, otherwise we would be putting the satan-worshipper together with the one who worships God'.

Without getting into an intellectual/philosophical/spiritual/political debate, the way Sikhi instructs us as to how to respect and live alongside members of other faiths, or indeed no-faith, would preclude this 'rhetorical question' from ever arising.

Who are we to question God's Infinite Will? Or do you think it is some other 'ascribed partner' who has placed many faiths upon this planet? Going around trying to prove others wrong leads to ego/nafs...and ego/nafs leads towards 'the devil' and not towards Allaah/Vaahiguru. Spirituality shines forth from the heart of the Spiritual - this is all God's Will. You have chosen a Path...just as others have chosen a Path.

Indeed even if one is a Muslim, our Siree Guru Sahib ji has stated words to the effect that Shaitaan can undo the 5 prayers i.e. ego/pride can rob us of all the spirituality gained from following rituals/reciting prayers/actioning good deeds etc. Please ponder over this...

Is your relationship with God a kind of Balance Sheet (submission = rewards/heaven/servants received in an afterlife) or is it one of selfess sacrifice (loving submission = submission = submission = ...ad infinitum)?

>'This is not the tradition of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) i.e. to insult the figures of worship of other religions, rather we are more interested to invite you to accept the beauty and perfection of Islam'.

i absolutely agree with you; The Prophet from what i have learned and researched regarding Islam was an amazing human-being. i wonder if you can, after putting your hand upon your heart, say that the press release is in keeping with his 'traditions' and principles? Please explain.

>'As for the fact that we might be paying £10,000 for people to embrace Islam or that young Sikh or Hindu girls are being targetted by Muslim youth by getting them drunk, this is nonsense and in fact an insult to your young girls if you believe that they are that fickle to just accept Islam from someone clearly not practising'.

i absolutely agree with you again; sadly, many Punjabi girls, just like some Pakistani girls, are easily led astray because of vices such as: dependence upon alcohol/drugs, lack of spiritually-grounded lifestyle etc.

i personally find it hard to believe that a PRACTISING Sikh (the ONLY kind of Sikh) would give up their faith for another faith. But i am willing to be proved wrong...only Allaah/Vaahiguru is All-Wise, All-Knowing...the Inner Knower of Hearts.

>'In 1995 around 19 people accepted Islam on the day alhamdulillah (praise be to Allah)'

All according to Allaah's/Vaahiguru's Hukam...who are we to judge what is good or bad regarding such fundamentally personal spheres of experience/belief? Hopefully those 19 people will move forward upon their spiritual journey - we should all pray for them.

Veer 'Abu Lugman' ji, there are deeper things to learn when one wishes to surrender to Allaah's/Vaahiguru's Hukam...to practice the Deen of Submission - to become a True Muslim is to surrender ego - my Siree Guru Sahib Ji has taught me this. Praise be to Allaah/Vaahiguru, the Vanquisher of Ego and False Pride.

>'This particular Rally has been entitled 'Challengig freedom' and on the day we expect to raise four Gazeebos where each of the four freedoms (personal, ownership, worship and expression) will be refuted and debated'.

Sounds interesting...hopefully these Gazeebos will leave those who attend with a better understanding and appreciation of Islam; as opposed to the bitter taste generated by the press release's vitriolic nature.

>'I therefore invite all Sikhs and Hindus and people of other religions to come down to the Square and to engage with us in intellectual debate and discussion - let the truth prevail on this day'.

'Truth when the ages began, Truth when the ages commenced, Truth now and, says Nanak, He will remain Truth forever more'.

Veer ji, these are the Words transmitted via my Siree Guru Sahib Ji...the origin of these Words is none other than Allaah/Vahiguru. Do you really believe that intellects alone, on Sunday 25th July, will lead to Truth? You seem to forget that Truth in itself is defficult to define i.e. objectivity, subjectivity etc. Hence in Sikhi the only Truth, by the strictest definition of the word, IS Allaah/Vaahiguru - and one can only EXPERIENCE this Truth...not really UNDERSTAND it as such.

i have been taught that only they are aware of the Truth who have become One with the Truth...all others, including me, can merely talk about it in abstract ways. May Allaah/Vahiguru bring me and you to The Truth...The very Eternal Throne Upon which Allaah/Vahiguru is seated...may he place us at the Highest Station as His Slaves.

>If you believe that you have the truth and a superior belief or ideology surely you would want to share that with others?

My Veer ji, you have alot to learn as to what motivates a Sikh of Vahiguru.

What more can i say, fool that i am.

Veer ji, may Allaah/vaahiguru bless us all with such a Spiritual State, whereby we feel so secure in our own beliefs, that such scenarios as this never arise...

Where we do not feel the need to 'convert' others because we think we will be better rewarded/will be better human beings/will realise our faith more in the eyes of God...

After all, Allaah/Vahiguru cannot be 'bought' and 'influenced' so cheaply.

Khud'afis
Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Harpartap Singh
Date: 7/22/2004 4:37 am

VahegurujikaKhalsa, VahegurujikiFateh!

After the meeting last night it was decided that the East London Jatha will be gathering at Singh Sabha Gurdwara Sahib, Seven Kings at 0930 on Sunday. After doing Ardaas, they will leave at 10 am.

H
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : ?/???
Date: 7/22/2004 6:05 am

what about bradford are there any bus's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : GurSa Singh
Date: 7/22/2004 7:34 am

Poster now ready for distribution. Please put up in your locals Gurdwaras & distribute to Sangat

http://free.hostdepartment.com/a/all_info/Poster.htm
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : mard-e-mujahid
Date: 7/22/2004 8:07 am

the gov is playing the same trick on the bnp and the muslim group, they wont ban them, that drives them underground and hard to monitor, especially when both groups have popular sentiments in the new muslim voice of britain.

mr singh i think sikhs need to understand there is a problem within sikh girls. If they chose to convert via dating, then dating is their problem. If they chose to date that is their concept they are happy to live by. If they choose a man based on his looks thats their strife. they walk down the street dressed in clothes that reveal their bodies and yet expect no responses? They are game as much as the man is and have to live with the consequences. They know dating is wrong and forbidden in sikhism, they know dating a muslim in a serious relationship means they will have to convert if they seek marriage through dating. So knowing all this and still thousands of sikh girls are "lured"? no not lured they are adults grown humans with minds of their own and fully capable of making their choices.

If caste, family structures are a problem then be brave be truthful and face it as it is, thats more helpful in the long run to correct what is wrong. If you have failed tyo do that then your generations ahead will look at your failures which multiply. The more you leave your problems on the side the worse it is for you. Whilst attacking any religious personality is vile and upsetting, the orginal poster does have some valid points. Why do sikhs practice caste? why do sikhs have photos? now what has that led to?

here the presenters offers a system based on equality, what answer will the sikhs give of today? where is this equality? im not trying to up islam but its a proven fact muslims have mixed racial bloodlines. When compared to sikh rajputs the muslim rajpputs have mixtures of turkish, arabic, pashtu, khoon. the sikhs have stuck to the hindu system. Muslims in india were former low caste hindus, Islam has championed their cause, while the sikh leaders told the low castes where to go some years earlier.

now it takes a muslim group 300 years after sikhism is flourishing to ask what are you playing at? dont you think someone will ask you what beauty have you found when you practice the opposite? why have sikhs played ignorant ( or deliberate) to photo worship and caste? You think a rebuttal of "no sikhi says this" will change anything? the sikhs have remained mum against their own message. Then what of the message?

Islam has and will continue to grow. I see it thriving and ready to replacve unfair racial systems established by superior upper classes which sikhs have become infected with.

THE NEXT CIVIL REVOLUTION IN INDIA BELONGS TO THE MOST OPPRESSED


(former punjabi)
ALLAHU AKBAR

Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Gursharan Singh
Date: 7/22/2004 9:36 am

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji ke Fateh

The event is definitely taking place as far as we know. What shocks me the most is that the first response made by everyone is to sit at their telephone or PC and moan to Ken Livingstone!
Khalsa ji wheres your courage gone???
Why are you scared???
Sant Jarnail Singh said: "THe offspring of lions do not get scared, the offspring of goats do!

This a WAR!!! These Muslim fanatics have waged a war with us! Everyone needs to attend the battlefield of Trafalgar Square on Sunday! However, this a verbal war! The best weapon we have to win this war is KNOWLEDGE and faith in Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, the perfect Guru who's naiklank!

Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj says: "Kshatryi ko poot ho, Bahman ko nahee" (I am the son of a Kshatryia not a Brahmin)
Maharaj is not talking about caste but the mentality and ideology of these people! A brahmin is a pacifist and will never believe in standing up for a just cause, however a Kshatryi is a warrior who never leaves the battlefield!!!
Kalgidhar pitta has give us Amrit from a KHANDA!
Why not a Kirpaan, arrow or spear???
Because Khanda is taken from sanskrit meaning Mort (DEATH!)
Singhs on the battlefield were not afraid of death because they've already drank it - Amrit. Mrit means death, Amrit means without death!!! AKAAL

Sorry if I have offended anyone, please forgive my ignorance!

KAAL HE AKAAL
SAT SRI AKAAL
GURBAR AKAAL
KHALSA FAUJA RAN VICH SAJAI
KHALSA FAUJA CHANDAI SAJAI
JO ARRAI SO JHARRAI
SAT SRI AKAAL
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Ajmar Singh
Date: 7/22/2004 10:54 am


I think the above points are interesting. The main problem is that very, very few people born into Sikh homes, including parents know what sikhi is about. For example a girl who converted to Islam (BTW she did have a muslim boyfreind) said that she did so because she believed in 1 God and not 10 referring to the Guru’s. This made me Lough as the very first teaching in Guru Granth Sahib ji is that God is one "Ik Oankar", even the word Ik is written as a number to strengthen the point. However most people born into “Sikh homes” are ignorant of the basic facts. The same goes for pics and caste. No other faith condemns caste as much as in Sikhi, likewise idol worship is condemned again & again, as the One is revealed as formless etc. However due to ignorance people born into “Sikh homes” and even parents no very little. These people are than taken advantage of by people who say “you believe in pictures and caste,” when in reality Sikhism totally rejects these things even more than Islam does. Hence these people are easily converted due to a lbasic ack of knowledge rather than real religious conviction.

Muslims argue against idol worhip but face five times day to mecca to pray which contains nothing more than a black stone. Millions of Muslims circle the stone and try and touch it, its even believed that it was once white but has the ability to absorb sin which made it black. Even the word Allah is a pre Islamic pagan name used for the head God in pagan religion. Likewise Islam preaches caste in its own way, by splitting humanity into Khafir and believer. Rather than encouraging one to see God in all it creates sour ego and hate. The contradictions in Islam are amazing such as lust and alcohol being used to intice people to convert (such things are promised to believers in heaven) whilst banning them here. The list goes on and on (I realy can't be bothered to list them all out as I have better things to do), even the Quran was not written by Muhammad but compiled latter (he was illiterate, which is quite strange for someone intrusted with the duty of giving God’s message). However followers of such a “faith” still find it easy to convert people born in “Sikh homes” because we are so ignorant about what Sikhism actually says on basic issues.

It should be noted that literally millions of Muslims converted to sikhism through out the times of Guru Nanak and so on, even when being a sikh was made an illegal act. Why would these Muslims many of whom were very spiritual and devout Muslims convert to Sikhism when Islam offered more truth? People are only easily converted due to ignorance. I personally nearly fell into this trap, but infact it was through such questions that I realised how beautiful Sikhi is (as I was forced to do some real research.)

Through real research people born in Sikh homes rather than actually being sikhs will discover for instance the truth how caste simply did not exist in the Sikh community during the period of the Guru’s but only recently appeared after the Khalsa raj. Infact the Guru’s sikhs came from all castes, and it was Sikhism in North India which actualy championed the course of the lower castes, (please read the numerous references in Guru Granth Sahib Ji). Almost every aspect of Sikhi rejects caste such as Langer, taking Amrit from the same bowl, one universal surname etc. Infact modern day Sikhs are a mixture of all four Hindu castes and Muslims.
However without knowing the facts about sikhism we have (not all of course) begun doing the exact opposite, which we need to break if indeed we are really the followers of Sikhism.


I hope that these questions posed by radical Islamic groups on Sikhi will make people who know very little do some real research into Sikhism and discover how rather than convert they need to become real Sikh’s in the first instance if they really wish to get closer to God. Yes indeed we do need to ask what we have been playing at, and really start following the teachings and life examples of the Guru’s. We need to accept caste has never had a place in Sikhi and pictures are just a joke and blatantly against Gurmat, basically we need to follow Sikhism as it is and educate each other. That way once we are really Sikhs no one can convince us of the need to go backwards into Islam.

What ever God does is for the best, and I have no doubt that these comments by Muslims will generate more interest and success for Sikhism, the real hidden jewel in the World.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Ajmar Singh
Date: 7/22/2004 11:09 am

Just a few Qutes from Guru Granth Sahib Ji, indeed lets follow the teachings and hence we can never be decieved or led backwards due to not knowing what Sikhi says.


The stone which man calls God,
Takes him and drowns him along with it;
O sinful and disloyal creature, understand you not
That a boat of stone cannot carry you ashore?
Nanak has found that Lord, through the Guru,
Who feeds all His creation on sea and on land.
(Guru V, Suhi Rag)

He who thinks that the stone is God, Worships in vain;
He who prostrates before stones, Labours to no purpose.
(Guru V, Bhairo Rag)

Those who have forsaken God,
And have attached themselves to idols, Shall go to hell.
(Guru V, Jaitsri Rag)

They worship one stone,
While the other stones they trample under their feet;
If the former is God, then the latter must also be the same.
So says Namdev: I worship God alone.
(Namdevji, Gauri Rag)


What is cold before the fire? What is night before the sun? What is darkness before the moon? What is caste before the water and the winds? Discriminate ye, O Saints, and search ye your hearts. For the Light of the Lord Pervades all; how, near how near is He ! Near, too near, is He to all the world; He, the Yonder Lord, beyond Measure. (Gauri Poorbi, M. 4)

Hereafter goes not caste nor color with thee, And one becomes as are one' s deeds. (Asa, M. 3

Hereafter, caste and power are of no account, for a new man is born into the World of God. Yea, they whose Honor is of account to the Lord, they alone are men of Honor. (Asa Sri Kabirji Dupadas)

Of a high caste or casteless, whoever Dwells on the (Lord's) Name, he attains to the highest Boon (of Beautitude). So I dwell on the Lord's Name: and my Mind is pleased with the Lord's Name.

Unknowable is my Lord, Infinite. Unfathomable and Imperceptible, Who Dies not, nor is bound by the Writ of Karma. His Caste is casteless; He is incarnated not and is Self-existent: He is neither lured away by Doubt nor Attachment. (Sorath M. 1)

Yea, he is Highest of the high and Purest of the pure, in whose heart abides the Lord. Nanak washes the Feet of such a Devotee who Dedicates himself to his Lord, though he be of a low caste (according to tradition).

You are of high caste, but feed yourself upon the lower castes. Yea, by forcing your will, you fill yorr belly. And investing the Chaudasa and the Amavasa days with sanctity, you beg for alms: lo, you fall into the well, lamp in hand. You are a Brahmin whle I am a weaver from Kashi, how can I be your equal? But, while you are drowned with all your faith in the Vedas, I am Saved, uttering the Lord's Name. (Kabir)

Be not proud of thy caste: For, he alone is a Brahmn who Knows Brahma, the only God.
(Rag Bhairo M. 3, Chaupadas)


Caste or no caste, whosoever contemplates God, is Emancipated, yea, whosoever dwells on Him. (Bhairo M. 5)

I worship the One God,
I remember the One God,
And I make supplication to the One God alone.
(Guru V, Jaitsri Rag)


Says Kabir at the top of his voice:
There is but One and the Same God,
Both for the Hindus and the Muslims.

Nanak, the worship of the True One is real;
Whosoever takes birth and passes away is unstable
and transient. (Guru I, Asa Rag)

Call on God, the One, the Formless,
Through the Grace of the Guru.
(Guru III, Sri Rag)
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : warrior*princess
Date: 7/22/2004 1:10 pm

RESPONSE RECEIVED


Dear Kaur

Thank you for your e-mail. I have been asked to respond.

Al Muhajiroun do not have permission to hold a rally on Trafalgar Square and they have not applied for permission. A letter has been sent to the UK leader of Al Muhajiroun, Anjem Choudary, asking him to confirm that he is not intending to hold a demonstration on the square, but no response has so far been received.

Following a rally on the Square held without permission two years ago, Mr
Choudary was successfully prosecuted by the Authority under the Trafalgar Square byelaws, and the mayor will take a similar approach if the byelaws are again breached.'

Thank you for taking the time to write to the Greater London Authority.

Yours sincerely

Richard Nicholson
Public Liaison Officer
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : warrior*princess
Date: 7/22/2004 1:22 pm

btw, that response has been emailed on behalf of the
Mayor
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : thinking singh
Date: 7/22/2004 2:16 pm

Murd-e-mujahid has a very important point. He may be a Muslim, but he's pretty much summed up the problem with the Sikh community. We have THE BEST system of all religions. No doubt (I know he didnt' say this, but it's the truth), but a system isn't everything. People looking into a religion aren't going to look at the system first (even though they should) they'll look at the people following it. Are we following Sikhi? Nope. Are we setting a great example? Again, no. So then why are we so infuriated when people say Sikhs are corrupt and want to become Muslims whom they see as being sincere?

If you want to stop Muslim conversions, follow Sikhi in your daily life. Don't give it lip service, believe it and live it.

When we have a Sikh community comprised of even 25% real Sikhs, this conversion problem is going to end. And frankly, we'll be the ones in a position to have a rally and not just protest them.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : warrior*princess
Date: 7/22/2004 4:44 pm


*Thinking Singh said: follow Sikhi in your daily life. Don't give it lip service, believe it and live it.*



Nice point!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : GurSa Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 12:41 am

Poster now ready for distribution. Please put up in your locals Gurdwaras & distribute to Sangat

http://free.hostdepartment.com/a/all_info/Poster.htm
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/23/2004 2:51 am

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vahiguru Ji Ki Fateh


Hindus will forget caste system but better try to make muslims forget it it first.
Sayad,Kureshi,Siddiqi,Pathan,Hzara,Turk,Turkmeen,Tazik,Kurd and so on. If your Kuran is so clear why thier are 72 sects. Your bose Bakri is more against Shias of Iran than infidals
What do you have to say of your racialism.
You say that Hazrat Ali killed demon were actualy black of Africa. Teach yourself before before telling other


Lets talk of reincarnation. Nothing hapens if Allah does not want. Not a leaf can fleter.
Often like your great martyr Mohmud attah(9/11 Fame) was turned into ash. The carbon of it could be utised by a plant of wheat. That wheat was eaten by Bin-Laden.
Tell after Laden goes to Grave and at the last day of judgement,Who will come back to life,Laden or Atta whose body by know is part of Laden's body.

Last day of judgement,When mecca was attacked by hordes of elephant,Allah sent an army of hoppee who throw stone on the atackers and made them flea.

You think God of God's Allah is presently sleeping that Allah will wait the sinner to do sin and cannot prevent and punish just now.


Everything is amde by Allah,Correct or not. Anyway Black stone of Kureshi tribe(who were idol worshippers) an object of pray.(Before it it was yeruselam was not so ? only after being snubed by jews did you people shifted to qibla,that stone)

And what about the books of Jews Torah and Jabure and Book of chrestians Anjeel.
you say that they are holy books but the present version are incorrect and only Kuran is correct. Nice so where are the real books,Breake open the Qabah you may get them in.
So Sikhism is jumbled up so what about Kurshi,jew,Chrestian contribution in Islam. That is not hotpot. Iqra you say that Prophet when got enlightened by gabril did say,As prophet was illetrate. So Kuran was sent by Allah,nice, Which is the firest copy of it. Perhaps all were writen afterwardfs. Same is true for Hadeeth,(What Prophet said) if illetrate than can say words of Kuran by God but how can say own words in Hadeeth?


Historically, the effect of Islam in the Indian sub-continent region was instant. Its emphasis on One God corrected many of the social issues and “mystical” beliefs associated with Hinduism at the time.>

Dear boy, 3500 year before Prphet touched the earth did Gita was written, Even before it were written Vedas and Vedanta and Brahamsutra. Islam also agrees that many messengers did come to earth before Rasool. few are mentioned but many are not mentioned in Kuran. Read old Santan Dhrami literature mentioned above. You will know Allah.


Before Islam came Chrestian ruler of Punjab(Parthians converted by St thomas) were reconverted by one messenger of Allah Adi Shankar(PBUH) and he amde them to worship Prabrahm(Allah)

All race and Castes of India got united under ONE God Nirankar,Niranjan (Worshipped by Nath yogis)and defeated Arabs you must know that Arabs could not cross INdia. This was due to the worshipping of Allah.



Very well from Mahmood Ghaznavi to Bahadur Shah Zafer all who sat on delhis throne were outsiders. Right or wrong. Inspite of conversion to Islam native Indians are Arzal(Low caste) but outsiders are Ashraf(Pure) ,This hypocracy good.

Better tell this thing to a Pathan or Sayad of Delhi to marry his doughter to Kurshi(Butcher),Or Kureshi to ansari(Tanner) He will butcher you.
In UK just tell a punjabi paki to mary his doughter to a shia Irani and see what happens.
In Arabic Baqri Means like cow,In our Language it is goat. Sikhs like goats meat so do your leader Bakri.



Very God, If Kabah of Mecca not a creation of Allah ,is it like Allah stand since eternity. Who made it or are you doing a Shirk(bringing otheer thing in front of allah).

What about the creations burried under the grave who are worshipped by Muslims. Did not Allah made them.

What about Ya Mustfa,Ya Ali,Ya hussain, who are they to be loved if all is Allah.

you say God Salute Rasool,Is not Rasool Allahs creation. How can a man like Rasool can dictate hsi terms to Allah.


So not eating food for 40 days,Killing animal with cruel way, disposing body in unscintific way(one day whole world will have graves of Muslims), Circumsention, not urinating in a partcular direction,applying mud on gental after urinating,By moon does decsion of IDetc.etc. among other this is enlightenment of Islam rest is supoerstition.


So sir if all are under control of God as you say than we are Sikhs or they are Hindu that is by control of God. God made us like this. Bhai Mardana,Ajmeer Singh, Dindar Singh,Piara Singh,Metab beer Singh are many Sikhs who were made Sikh by Allah from Islam. As everything is in Allaha's control. sheikh Ibrahim Raskham,Lavangi Devi were the people who Allah made Hindu from Islam by his power.

Does no Kuran SAY ,'Oh momins! do not fear the infidals(of thier power) as if Allah wanted Allah would have made whole mankind as muslims.( But he wanted
only few chosen one). How can you defy Allah or Kuran,
Aurangjeeb wanted to do this.
Allah took India from Islam forever for this.


Like child marrige,Exploitatiuoion of women,honour killing ,veil, Discrimination based on Faith and Race etc. all came to India and other part of the world by people like you.


Thats way Nanak Said in Karni Namah to Qazi Ruqqandeen,'That he will creat Khlasa in Tenth Form who will be victorious over Meccah, This testomony was given to Sikhs by Arabs only)

We preach Millions of skys,neither worlds,(Gurdev showed this to son of Ruqqandeen the same,Brought from thier Karah Prasad,we still take it as a proof of it, Time of creation gurudev said Qazi's could not get from Kuran and you say that Gurudev went prase to rasool.

In fact when he went to Mecca he put his fet toward Kabbah and and objection told the muslim to let his fet the towarads the place where God does not exist.


Sir,Gurudev was taken to place which you called Janat(heavon),He was told by your own Allah that Allah does not like his creation fighting on religion(as you are still doing) as Allah is nether Hindu nor Muslman.
So when he come back to earth, he repeated the same,

Qazi and local muslim ruler like you wanted to make him Muslim so they asked him as thier is no difference between muslim and non muslim than why not come for prayer(Salat/Nmamz) in mosque.

First ruler nawab read the namaz and along side qazi too did pray,Gurudev did not pray,When reason was asked he said 'oh Nawab while praying your mind was not towards allah but towards the horses you need to purchase from Kabul why should I pray with you.

Than Qazi asked the same,Gurudev said that good Qazi your mind was with the she calf which your cow just delivered,not for Allah,You to are not worthy to have prayer with.

Anyway dear writer today when you go to Namaz do not forget to remeber Allah may be you could understand the truth.


Sikhs are better weak than strong muslims as the strong Muslim show thier strenght in Kashmir,Chechnaya,Philipines,Ghana,USA,Kenya,Bosnia and endless places,They often show the strenght to own muslims too. Is not that correct sir,.

Anyway just tell us does Allah lives everywhere or in Heavan only.
If everywhere than what thing is manmade in world as all is Allah,As Allah allows everthing to happen so Sikhism was formed.
You think allah is bounded by Kuran thast once a last prophet is sent,Next there will be no one,
Tell truthfully that Kings of Kings Allah,who controls the deeds of other, does Allah needs any permision from Muslims to send the next prophet(Guru Nanak in ten forms),If Allah has decided to send them so did they came.

If Allah only lives in Heavon,Then tell us who created the place which irreegular form of Light(Allah) occupied while creating the creation. Suppose 3rd option that after cretion Allah contracted Alla's extent from all places into heavon,Then spce beyond the fringes of vaccum from where Allah has retreated who made that ?


Very Good this means racial and castists and secternal attribute are there in it due Hinduism a religion Greater than Islam as than Sikhism as it is influencing Islam even at the places like Iraq(Arab race killing Kurds) where Hinduism Never went.

Jesus Christ (Hazrat Isah Ahle Salah)said maybe he precived people like you that people see small peice of wood in others eye but donot see plank ib your own,Beter reform own creed first, Largest numbers of Muslims are killed fellow muslims only. Why donot you all Arabs consider Aytollah of Iran as leader of All Islamic world only as he is from Ajam(dumb country) and is Aryan and notb Arab. Nice thing eh!


Nice thing,Go to Qarbala many shias hang picture of Imam Hussain in thier shoulders. Inspite of Irans protest thes Arabs keep on doing Shirk,go and rectyfy it. As far as Sikhs are concern they only worship Your Allah,Have faith in Allah(What we call Akal Purakh) beter than you. We donot loot or burnt the place of worship of other Faith as we find Allah everywhere.


Very Good,Since inception Sikhism has following Rule and all parts following it,beter you to follow it,

1)All universe in nothing but manifeatation of GOD.
2) Everything which happens only by will of God.
3) Salvation can be given to anyone but with mercy of God,the person can be a non Sikh. God is not bounded by any rule or Book, Our Book says that,Our Book is the verbal Manifestation of God,To guide all mankind,The God in the form of word is our Gude Since inception.

you keep name a mohamud(on the name of Prophet) ,Our Guru as made ourselve as thier Replica,Each true Sikh is a form of Nanak.


Unlike you people who will bury dead,Who are later eaten by badger(often in UK) or Termite,We caqn burn them,Bury them or sink them in water,We do not love our bodies either living our dead,These are our chariats which lead us to our destination that is only Faith in God with devotion.(In your destiantion you may need your body to derink wine and to enjoy with 72 or how many maids each of you will be given, Does female also be given 72 men to do the same)


Anyway we repect Allah so we are not writing much,If thier is anything bigger than faith in God as divine than it is better we are not divine like that,



so what about crime,rape,honour killing etc. etc. Islam recently gave vey good gift to spain in Madrid,(Few bombs and many dead bodies)


so what about reading of Ayat ul kursi of Kuran like spell is it not a ritual, Just go and erradicate those muslims who act as an occultist and ghost busters and more and more muslims go ot them. On Eid ul azaha,Sacrifise of Animal we think is not a ritual,Kissing stone,Drinking holy water(Ab-e-zamzam),Pray of five time what are they?


Nice very nice then why muslims countries keep on fighting each other.


Very well,Your Hero Saddam Hussain,Rapist,Cruel Killer, aggresor to another Islamic countries like Iran,Kuwait)He even erected his own largwer than life statue, He posted his photos allover his empire, He was the Hero of Islamic world,There is a term we remeber hypocrcy.


Good action; Killing non muslims or Mulims who disagree, Bombard Churches,Syngongs,Temple, Rape weak child( Like wife of Bin laden) etc. Very Good action.

Blissfull happiness in pardise: Female partners for pleasure,wine etc. Such could be simulated here by going to brothals,with wine and perhaps viagra.



So luring the people who see Allah in and out of thier body,One with universe, Sir,
this body odes not need confort to remeber God. In comfort of Heavon with so many servents, we will forget the Allah,Who gave it us. Better is we Go to hell where at least in pain we will remebe Allah. Pain is beter to us than your heavon as we could rember our master thier. Allah created us as for his pleasure ansd not to provide us servents. We are thier to sing glory of God and not for this stuff. Go show this lollypop to some child.


So you love creation and lure other with creation of comfort and not the creator. Right?



Hindu is Hindu,Muslims is Muslim and Sikh is Sikh by will of God as you only mentioned above that thing is in Gods control. Right?


Sir, This will be decided by Allah,Who are you,Are you his agent, Can you tell us how many breaths has Allah given to you in coming time?
Than how could yopu forcast this about last day of Judgement?


So you beter give out your false Islam and become Sikh.

<“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” >

how is Allah 'he' is Allah a male ? Just tell Allah to come to trafalger square in form of light which sits in heavan on that day. If 'he' comes and tell us all to be muslim we will be, But if 'he' does not than thiis means 'he'is not in your control. This is acepted in Sikhism only. If Allah does not come lets have bet that in that circumstances you will have to be a Sikh or A Hindu or a Muslim or a Jew.

You say devotion only till this life thereafter only pleasure,This is greed not devotion. If Allah gives you these economic comforts ar present you forget 'him', So you will not rember 'him' in heavon. Who are greedy person trying to cheat your GOD. 'He' Created you,Heavon and hell every thing created by 'him' can be created or destroyed.

Perhaps the heavon you imgine will be destroyed by him before last day of judgement.
( words between <> are comments of pres release
Al-Muhajiroun UK and outside is reply by Das).
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : jagroop singh
Date: 7/23/2004 5:36 am

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!

Sadh Sangat Jio,

This thread is a positive thing...

Veer Ajmar Singh ji wrote:

' People are only easily converted due to ignorance. I personally nearly fell into this trap, but infact it was through such questions that I realised how beautiful Sikhi is (as I was forced to do some real research)

i too was 'repulsed' by the 'Sikhi' that i saw around me, due to my own ignorance...

Caste...alcohol...flesh...hypocrisy...lip-service - family, friends etc. But Siree Guru Sahib Ji showed me that most Punjabis have rejected the Mahan Gift of Sikhi and instead have lost their Honour (earlier this very morning my Pabi ji was asking me whetehr or not they should cut my little baby nephew's hair because 'it doesn't look nice'!)

Then after looking at many faiths, including Islam, i finally found the REAL Sikhi - Siree Guru Sahib Ji. Before finding-out about Sikhi, Islam was attracting me to the point that i would have converted...regardless of certain doubts that arose due to certain Suras/Verses.

Then Siree Guru Sahib Ji allowed me to read such Divine things, that this hard heart couldn't remain unaffected. It soon became apparent to me that many of the Suras i had read in the Holy Qu'ran were not able to point towards the Truth in such a sublimely Universal and Judicious manner i.e. treatment/views of women, nature of an afterlife, tolerance of slavery etc. Something inside me changed forever. Dhan Siree Guru Granth Sahib Ji! Vahiguru.

i never feel the need to 'forcefully' repudiate Islam however, as Siree Guru Sahib has said in Savaiye:

'The Qu'ran, the Puranas, divulge countless things, but I DO NOT place my faith in them.

The Simritees, the Shastras and the Vedas reveal much knowledge but I do not aknowledge them.

Through your Mercy I have not said anything - it is YOU who speaks these words'

(Please forgive any mistranslation)

Therefore the question never arises: Do Sikhs accept the Qu'ran etc.? This is because Gursikhs ONLY aknowledge Siree Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the Supreme Authority, even though we are able to to study other spiritual texts. Bhai Nand Lal Goya is an example of someone who was learned regarding the Qu'ran; apparently, he discoursed frequently with Muslims regarding the Nature of Truth and always projected Gursikhi when doing so...

In fact, i have enjoyed reading certain Suras from the Holy Qu'ran.

However. the Point being:

Siree Guru Sahib Ji is Dhurki Bani - direct from Vahiguru/Allaah/Ram. For the Gursikh, it is the ONLY example of Dhurki Bani...hence, it si the ONLY source of their Faith.

Bhul chuk maaf karna Sangat jio...

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : Harpartap Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 6:18 am

VahegurujikaKhalsa, VahegurujikiFateh!

It know looks like the socialsits will be turing up aswell on Sunday:-

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/07/295070.html

TAKE BACK THE SQUARE!
kalabine, 19.07.2004 18:51

Sunday 25th July sees a rally in Trafalgar Square at 1pm, by the Islamic
fundamentalist group Al-Mahajiroun.
The National Front have called a counter demonstration.

The new anti-fascist group Anti-Fa sees very little difference between the
fascism of the National Front and the Islamic fundamentalism of Al-Mahajiroun.
Indeed their views on gay people, Jews, Women, Trades Unionists, Anarchists etc would appear to be virtually identical.

Meet outside the national Gallery at 12.30pm.

TAKE BACK THE SQUARE!

Ken Livingstone organised today’s event. Recently he also organised a conference where one of the principal guests was Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi. Many observers have described al-Qaradawi as a moderate, whilst others see him as a fanatic. We understand that the majority of Muslims don’t share all his ideas, yet his arrival kicked up a huge kerfuffle. Far fewer Muslims share the weird ideas of more fundamentalist Islamists, whose ideas are " frankly " barking. For example, the loons of al-Mahajiroun don’t consider there to be any mosques in the UK. Just as the NF are not representative of white people, al-Mahajiroun are out on the fringes of British Islam. But just how nutty are they?

You’ll have a chance to find out in Trafalgar Square next Sunday, 25 July, when al-Mahajiroun hold a Rally for Islam. This is not a fun-filled day out for all the family, unless your family is particularly patriarchal, homophobic, sexist and misogynistic, anti-Semitic and believes in killing everyone who doesn’t agree with you. Neither is it an introduction to what you’d understand as Islam, but to a political group seeking to use Islam for their own sordid ends. To their credit, al-Mahajiroun promise some miracles in the Square! It seems that atheists, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and bizarrely socialists will renounce their ideas and embrace Islam, quite spontaneously. It should be a sight worth seeing!

The highlight of the day, though, is likely to be the appearance of the National Front, who will definitely not be converting to Islam. Many of their ideas differ little from those of al-Mahajiroun, especially as regards Jews, women and gays and lesbians. They’re not turning up to cheer on the fundies " they’ll be out for their blood. The NF will also use the day as an opportunity to demand the expulsion of all Muslims from the UK and the destruction of all mosques in Britain.

ANTIFA opposes both the obscene fascism of the National Front and the apocalyptic extremism of fundamentalist Islam. Neither offers ordinary people " already suffering from bosses, councils and landlords " any solution. We are holding a counter-demo against the NF and al-Mahajiroun, meeting outside the National Gallery at 12.30pm. We look forward to seeing you there.
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : tarunjeet singh
Date: 7/23/2004 8:20 am


Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe

Last night there wa sa meeting held in Coventry where it was decided that the youth will go down to this rally, two coaches have been booked, also two coaches from Birmingham. For bookign for the coach call :- 07930196446

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fathe
Re: URGENT for UK/LONDON SINGHS
Posted by : uk singh
Date: 7/25/2004 11:05 am

It is only when men like you fail to perform their
function in life that the world truly becomes a wicked
place. When men of ability, strength, passion and
courage such as yourself run into the woods and only
worry by their own stake in life, the world is
overcome by the tyranny and injustice of ruthless
kings. Old men and women cannot live their lives with
dignity. Children cannot enjoy the riches of their own
culture and are forced by the threat of death to
renounce their faith. God did not create men like you
to worship him and seek his salvation, but rather to
live life with conviction and protect his children.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji
During his "Dialog of Destiny" with Banda Singh
Bahadur