ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
Divorce
Posted by : kookar
Date: 7/11/2004 9:05 pm
VaheguroojikaKhalsaVaheguroojikiFateh!!
These days so many divorce cases are seen in Gursikh families and i don't understand why is it happening amongst Gursikhs.
The main thing I can't understand is that when the registered marriage (registration to Govt) is not recognised in Sikhism unless anand kaaraj is performed in presence of Dhan Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaaj then why a divorce papers accepted. If the couple really wants to get seperate due to some UnAvoidable things, then they should present their condition before 5 pyaare or something which is sikhi related and not the legal government things.
Can sangat give their views on this?
VaheguroojikaKhalsaVaheguroojikiFateh!!
Re: Divorce
Posted by : Mandeep Singh
Date: 7/12/2004 7:35 am
VaahegurooJeeKaaKhalsaaa
VaahegurooJeeKeeFaateeh
You are absolutely correct. Just as a registered marriage certificate is not valid in Gurmat, then why should divorce papers be too. Marriage is only valid in Gurmat is an Anand Karaj is performed. I know of a couple who have had an Anand Karaaj but were not yet been legally married as they hadn't sent their marriage papers off. But in the eyes of Guru Sahib, they were a happy devoted married Gursikh couple.
In terms of divorce, I too have seen a few Gursikh couples whose marriages have ended up in having to get a divorce due to unforseen circumstances or due to matters beyond their control. But I don't think couples have gone through the process of both going in front of the Panj Pyaarey and having their marital problems resolved through Guru Khalsaa, before they start the legal proceedings of settling a divorce. I know of couples who have been 'seperately' to the Panj, but never together. I'm sure marital problems can be resolved if both partners were to present themselves in front of the Panj before drastic measures like a divorce were considered.
Although the notion of Divorce has no place in Gurmat, nonetheless it has occurred in Gursikh marriages due to one reason or another. Personally I have seen couples split because of either families, close relations, friends turned enemies... getting involved and stirring things even more in order to make the couple split up.
One tip I've learned from other Gursikh couples is that, if you've got problems with your partner or with your marriage, either sit down and sort it out between yourselves, or go infront of Guru Mahaaraaj/Panj Pyaarey and have it resolved there. DON'T LET ANYONE ELSE INTERFERE with your marital problems! That's when things can get messy.
VaahegurooJeeKaaKhalsaaa
VaahegurooJeeKeeFaateeh
Re: Divorce
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/12/2004 1:36 pm
good points. another thing could be is that we are adopting western practices and concepts more and more. such concepts like "dating" and "spending a few years with them before we get married" or the strange and misguided western concept of "love", dont laugh at me here but its true. look at the divorce rate in most western countries, 50%!! half of all marriages end in divorce, marriage is hit and miss! in fact all these celebrities are making it popular to marry and divorce, how messed up is this?
but what was the divorce rate amongst sikhs, gursikhs say 100 years ago? probably less than .1%, maybe even less. the more we adopt western ideals and concepts the larger our divorce rate will be. I would hate to even see a 10% divorce rate in our community, it would mess our entire culture up (more so than it already is)
Re: Divorce
Posted by : kookar
Date: 7/12/2004 9:01 pm
VaheguroojikaKhalsaVaheguroojikiFateh!!
Veer MKhalsa Jeeo, I agree that dating and so called love stuff amongst the so called sikhs but ofcourse a sikh is not a gursikh if is involved in these things. I am more concerned about Gursikhs who obey rehat and live as per HUKAM, why do divorce situation occurs.
And as per my knowledge is concerned it is more in Gursikhs in western countries, i know 2 gursikhs families in India where Husband and Wife are living seperately coz they couldn't end up living together but they aren't divorced and not planning to marry again. Its just they weren't compatiable or some issues arose due to "external" world which made them to live seperately but they didn't end up in divorce as they belived marriage once performed is a life long thing.
I agree with Mandeep Singh veerjee that Gursikhs let the external world interfere in their life which causes issues and Gursikhs should be aware that only Gurbani and no external world should affect their personal life.
VaheguroojikaKhalsaVaheguroojikiFateh!!
Re: Divorce
Posted by : Anjit
Date: 7/13/2004 8:48 am
So what r u guys saying..is it wrong..dating and love stuf?
Can somebody explain me this?
i think the the sikh society has a low divorce rate `coz its not accepted in our society..maby they live miserble but they think about their status..
let me know what u think
khalsa jeeo
Re: Divorce
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/13/2004 5:08 pm
dating is 100% wrong.
Re: Divorce
Posted by : Kaur
Date: 7/14/2004 6:22 am
Vaheguru Jee Ka khlasa Vaheguru Jee kee fateh
Why does divorce happen? I personally think that there a simple answer to that question - HAUMAI!!!
When one person says things like
"this is what I want"
"you are totally wrong - I'm right"
"you can't do that because I'm not happy about it, but we HAVE do do it this way"
that's when problems start to occur.
If the couple were to follow Gurmat and when one person is wrong according to GURMAT, then to be able to admit that, then divorce wouldn't even enter a couple's vocabulary.
Marriage/relationships are all a question of compromise. I know of a couple where, when there is a disagreement (however petty/slight), the Singh always says "well if you dont want to do it like this, then I'm going to leave!"
If a couple were to have nimrata and humbleness, then there wouldn't be a problem! Problems do arise in every relationship, but they need to be discussed, and both sides need 2 listen to each other
Bhul chook maaf
Re: Divorce
Posted by : Harpreet Singh
Date: 7/14/2004 7:46 am
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh
Kaur Ji, what if the husband is being abusive to the wife, or children?
Is this still Haumai?
Can the husband be stopped from such actions simply by accusing him of Haumai? Divorce may be against Sikhi as suggested here, but you have to remember that we live in a world were not everyone is that in tune with Sikhi to put aside their differences.
Some people are not worried what is gurmat or not, they simply may want out of an abusive relationship. Even though one individual may care for gurmat, the other may not. Are you willing to tell a battered woman to go back to her abusive husband simply because some people on a Sikh forum do not agree that she should have a divorce?
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh
Re: Divorce
Posted by : Kaur
Date: 7/14/2004 11:57 am
I think you misunderstood me Harpreet Singh Bhaji!
I was attempting to answer "kookar" when he/she said
"I am more concerned about Gursikhs who obey rehat and live as per HUKAM, why do divorce situation occurs."
I certainly would not even think of attempting to convince a battered woman to go back to her husband - in this case, i feel that it is absolutely right to divorce.
I was only talking about those who actually claim to "follow Gurbani", but still threaten their wives with divorce the minute there is a conflict as though this is some kind acceptable emotional blackmail.
And in these cases, nothing can stop the men, but I'm not sure whether it is right to divorce if there is no physical violence involved.
I hope this has cleared up my earlier post - sorry for the confusion!
Bhul chook maaf
Re: Divorce
Posted by : who me - homai
Date: 7/14/2004 10:20 pm
>I was only talking about those who actually claim to "follow Gurbani", but still threaten their wives with divorce the minute there is a conflict as though this is some kind acceptable emotional blackmail.
>And in these cases, nothing can stop the men, but I'm not sure whether it is right to divorce if there is no physical violence involved.
This happened to me for about 10 years - It was a pattern learned his from parents who also acted same way but without divorce
My parents did divorce and remarry
It took a very long time to put a stop to it - I was given advice to don't say anything - it only makes things worse which more or less gave him quiet permission to keep threatening my security when ever he got mad or hurt feelings.
It's probably the worst thing iIever went through in my life and sometimes I wanted away from it but had young children.
It got so bad sometimes I had to think where I would live and how I would care for my self and children. But then it was always expected that I should be loving after such bouts.
I was listening to Akhand Paath when something made me feel that to be a Singnni I had to stand up to this and stop taking it quietly. Quit letting him get away with it.
I had help froma counsleor - who set some rules- no more threatening.
It's my nature to forget and forgive especially when I know this isoften the result of frustration and fatigue. It's a mindset I adopted towards marriage.
Sometimes I feel really guilty about making him stick with me and our family when he might have been happier with someone who suited him better.
I figure maybe both of us could be with someone we are more compatable with but then we would never confront homai-
But I don't let him get away with it anymore! I also don't let my self get away with my part of the play. When ever we start going in the wrong direction we have to put a stop to destructive behavior that goes nowhere nor does any good.
The thing is none of you can really come on this forum and judge what goes on in others peoples relationships and what is their endurance factor.
Nor can anyone out guess what God has intended for a couple.
