ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/11/2004 1:34 am
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
Can some learned Veer/Bhen Ji shed some light on how our GURU KA LANGGAR which at GURU Ji GURU AMARDASS JI' time was..... FIRST LANGGAR and THEN DARSHAN of GURU JI....has turned around 380 Degrees into the Hindu "BHOG LAGGNA"...where it is DARSHAN FIRST....bhog laggna to the Devi/devta and then this PARSAAD is served to all the gareebs outside the mandir and this is DAAN by the rich ones.
Guru Ka Langgar is NOT parsaad...it is NOT served to only gareebs and lorwands.....It is NOT sponsored only by the Super "rich".
From the Histroical Account of the Emperor Akbar visit to Guru Ji Guru Amardass Ji's Darbar it is amply clear that the EMPEROR was told it was MANDATORY to PARTAKE of Guru ka Langgar FIRST before any DARSHAN of GURU JI was allowed. In practically every Gurdwara worldwide now it is DARSHAN FIRST and then Langgar.
Due to this perhaps we have nearly 60% of the SANGAT ARRIVING at Gurdwaras "JUST BEFORE LANGGAR OPENS".....early morning the Gurdwaras are practically EMPTY of any sangat... people jsut come in cursory matha tek and straight go to langgar hall to enjoy langgar and go home promptly ( packing home langgar to boot )
How did this 380 degree ABOU TURN come about and WHY ?? Is this an indication how subtly Brahminical traditions which GURU JI CATEGORICALLY REJECTED have crept in so SUBTLY that we dont even suspect.
Learning and re-learning...
Dass jarnail Singh.
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/12/2004 10:12 am
Jarnail Singh Bhaji,
Thanks for raising this point, I made some mention of this under the Sarabloh thread.
I personally don't believe "Bhog" is a brahmanical influence (as the Devi-tradition belongs more to the Kshatriyas than it does to Brahmins) and there is clear evidence of this tradition having been part and parcel of all traditional Sikh Sampradyas and Taksals.
I guess one would need to consider what, if any, is the role of the Devi within Sikh thought, if indeed the issue of "Bhog" within our Maryada is evident of the Devi Cult.
Alternative explanations I have come across, concern Guru Gobind Singh introducing this practice (similar to his giving his wife 5 shasters with which to have his darshan before partaking in her evening meal) -also compare this as a direct contrast to the Brahmin practice of having eat 'seet parshad' of the Brahmin who tastes the food first.
Another, yet more direct contrast to the 'seet prashaad' of an idol is to replace the idol with the Tegh (Degh Tegh Fateh!) as the Devi rather than idol-worshipping, some feel we are instructed to worship shasters (Jithey Shaster Namang, Namaskar Tamang), however this is not something that many feel comfortable and also view as a form of Murti-pooja -I personally don't as I feel Guru Gobind Singh has clearly given us instructions to view the Shabd and Shaster as our Guru in kulyug -but that's my "personal" opinion only.
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : kar kirpaa sabh rayN thheevaa
Date: 7/12/2004 11:13 am
I am not able to answer Bhai Jarnail Singh Jee's question and I hope that I don't divert the topic but I've been confused about these things myself
Akbar was told "Pehle Pangat, Peechae Sangat"
but Bhai Manj was told "Guru-ka-langar is not a trade commodity - earn your own food."
What's the bibek budhee answer to this ?
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : stupid
Date: 7/12/2004 11:28 am
bhai sahib are you saying that sangat should partake of langar first then have darshan of guru ji?
i always thought you had to matha tek first then have langar afterwards?
i am confused?
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/12/2004 6:42 pm
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji kI fateh.
Dear veer ji/Bhen Ji ( whose letter is just above this...but i just cant address you by the name you have chosen......I feel very stupid calling another gursikh "xxxxxx"..)
What i am saying is this was the NORM during GURU AMARDASS JI ( and also GURU ANGAD and GURU NANAK JI's TIME naturally)
History proves that EMPEROR AKBAR was told by GURU JI...PEHLEY PANGGAT...PEECHHEY SANGAT...that is HAVE LANGGAR in the PANGAT and then come into mY Drabar for SANGAT.
Today this is REVERSED.... we have SANGAT (matha Tek) and then PANGGAT..
My question is WHY this TOTAL REVERSAL and WHO authorised it and WHY and WHEN ??
dass jarnail Singh.
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : ...
Date: 7/12/2004 9:16 pm
i think one of the great problems is misinformation
how many gurdwaras do you see with a HUGE SIGN that says
"FIRST LANGAR THEN DARSHAN, PEHLE PANGAT, PEECHAY SANGAT"
I haven't seen a single gurdwara in my life that says this
And secondly I think some people feel socially conscious heading straight for the langar hall without even getting guru jee's blessings
but okay fine - if somebody does go and eat langar, THEN comes into the darbar, what about the Bhai Manj sakhi?
Are people supposed to come to the langar anytime all the time to eat?
Or do they have to earn their own food?
i don't understand...
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : stupid
Date: 7/13/2004 1:48 am
bhai sahib thank you for giving me some respect though i dont deserve any and my total lack of understanding of sikhi is the reason why i called my self stupid.
my own opinion on this reversal is that we manmukhs are making decisions based on our own intellect and not the gurus, we think times have moved on and so we must move on and leave behind what we were taught at the start? because that is old and not right anymore?!
just out of interest though, did guru ji command everyone coming to there darbar that they must first always partake of langar then come into darbar to have darshan of guru ji?
i must admit though that i find it very difficult to sit down after i've had langar
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/13/2004 8:08 pm
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
Veer Ji, Everyone deserves RESPECT........ respect is Earned..not given/demanded. In my book you earned my respect by the way of wriiting your mail.
ROTI BETI KEE SAANJH....this is mentioned in the Rehat maryada and is very important.
EATING TOGETHER was meant to BREAK the stranglehold the BRAHMIN had about his alleged SUPERIORITY over all others....a Brahmin would never sit down to EAT or SHARE his food with anyone else (lower)... IMHO this is why the institution of GURU KA LANGGAR was started by guru Ji - to PROMOTE EQUALITY and BROTHERHOOD of Man.
IF it is Historically right ( and this is NOT a SAKHI but HISTORY )that Emperor AKBAR was commanded by Guru Amardass Ji to HAVE LANGGAR in the PANGGAT FIRST before Guru Ji would give him DARSHAN...then this MUST have been for EVERYBODY.....the order to Akbar PROVES that GURU JI was FEARLESS and treated everyone EQUALLY ( unlike our present day Jathedars and Thekedaars of Sikh religion who will make SPECIAL RESERVATIONS etc for visitng dignatories like the Queen/President Bush/ Vajpayee etc etc...like being able to wear socks, shoes, sit on special cushions , bring along security guards inside etc etc....)
So First rule is ROTI ke saanjh....sharing of Bread. and this is Langgar Panggat Equality and applies to ALL irrespective of status.
Difficulty after eating langgar... shows you have overeaten/ have excess weight and must cut down on weight.....Guru Ka Langgar should be eaten sparingly !!...in my experience the less you eat the smaller your stomach becomes.....and slowly we lose weight. ( in your case i am just guessing...so excuse me if i am wrong...i mean no offense)
(the second is Beti - that is a sikh should ensure his beti daughter is only married to a SIKH) This is an unrelated topic so I am leaving it at that.
dass Jarnail Singh.
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/14/2004 2:17 am
This has become a different topic (from the original Kirpan Bhog), however again Jarnail Singh Bhaji, I agree with your points with Langar, a practical means of practising "Dhan Veer" as all true Yodhas believe in the Brotherhood of Mankind, as opposed to Brahmins, who seek to create differences -it is indeed shameful that not only has langar become a social-only "function" but also that many in the roop of Gursikhs have created divisions within this fine institution, supporting their divisive practices through various "selected" two line quotations from "select" sources.
In any event, as it is Kulyug, pre-occupation with the "physical" aspects of everything is to be expected and within the Sikhs we can see this all too well.
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : stupid
Date: 7/14/2004 8:44 am
bhai sahib jarnail singh
can anybody go and have langar at anytime? or must we do sewa first before having langar?
alot of people like myself will go gurdwara and do matha tek and then have langar and then leave or go gurdwara on lunch break is this ok?
and yes you were right i am overweight hence the problem of sitting down but also when you go gurdwara especially when its is a special day like gurpurab or someone has an akhand paat you normally find there to be more dishes than there are spaces on your taal, the choice on offer is overwhelming and i think this is a bad thing, what you think?
Re: Guru Ka Langgar - Bhog Laggna ??
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/14/2004 7:20 pm
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
Veer Ji,
Gurmatt runs on twin wheels - SEWA and SIMRAN. IMHO if we have done a lot of SIMRAN/KAMAII of NAAM we may make do with a less sewa. Essentially SEWA kills our Haumaii and EGO....it is a lesson in HUMILITY.
It is important that we dont "trade off" ..that is SEWA in place of or "paying" for Langgar...type of thing should not enter our heart. Guru ka Langgar is GURU KA GIFT and we cannot possibly PAY for it or Trade in.
Dont feel "guilty" that you are eating langgar and not paying back if not doing any sewa.....the sewa part should come naturally when you love the sewa and not as a trade in. I sometimes just have langgar and go home..other times i just do sewa and go home..it all depends on the mood of the day.
The too many dishes thingy is overcoming the simplicity of langgar...bad thing. Langgar should be simple daal roti and maybe achar/cucumbers/onions chutney thats all - with dahin/kheer if special ocassion....much more than that and it is a waste and show off. Langgar is not a high tea at a five star hotel.
dass jarnail Singh
