ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : sikhsangat
Date: 7/10/2004 3:05 pm
Here are some basic rules that should be enforced in the Gurdwara Sahib. Please try to follow as many as you can, MOST of them are common sense. If you have any questions about anything, ASK SOMEONE. If you don’t know anyone to ask, ask the heads of your gurdwara. Feel free to add anything you think needs to be added, but please ensure that it is in line with Gurmat. Lastly, please forward this to anyone who goes to the gurdwara. You may also want to print it out and post it up at your gurdwara.
>>>>
Basics:
1. Cover your head
2. Wash hands (if your feet are dirty wash them too. Many gurdwaray have a separate place for washing feet. If not, wash them in the sink or with water on your hands.)
3. Take shoes and socks off
Other stuff:
**most of these are common sense if you pay attention to number 4.
4. Keep in mind that sitting in darbaar where Guru Granth Sahib Jee is is the same thing as sitting in darbaar where Guru Nanak Dev jee/any other guru sahib is.. this point cant be stressed enough...most people would be more careful as to how they behave in darbaar if it was any other guru than guru granth sahib jee. Have as much respect, humility etc. in Guru Granth Sahib Jee's darbaar as you would in Guru Gobind Singh Jee's darbaar.
5. If someone has their eyes closed DO NOT DISTURB THEM (unless absolutely necessary). They are most likely concentrating on whats going on.. not sleeping.
6. When matha tekking, do it as if guru nanak dev jee is there... because he is.
7. Dont wear inappropriate clothing (i.e. tight clothes, shirts with low necks, shirts that show half your stomach, bright flashy sparkly suits, multicoloured suits, extravagant suits...)
8. Cover your head PROPERLY at all times. "it slipped off my head" shouldnt be an excuse.
9. Don't talk while in the darbaar, even if you can't understand doesnt mean other people aren't paying attention. Your talking will disturb them. Try to listen to whats going on and you'll catch onto a few things. Even if you dont, ask your parents or just keep quiet and do simran.
10. If you see a friend sitting nearby or walking across, dont start frantically waving at him/her. If you must talk to him/her right then, go outside and do it.
11. NO TALKING whatsoever during ardaas.
12. When getting parshad, put your hands up high so that its easier for the sevadaar and make sure to use both hands.
13. When eating parshad, dont play around with it.. just accept it and eat it.
14. Do not DANCE, or even move your shoulders to the beat when kirtan is going on. Its not bhangra.
15. Dont pay attention to what other people are wearing.
16. LISTEN to what is going on.
17. keep cellphones, pagers etc off.. or if you must, keep it atleast on vibe so that it disturbs no one but you.
18. If your cell DOES ring, take it out immediately and turn it off. Don't leave it ringing in your pocket/purse thinking that no one else can hear it. DO NOT EVER talk on your phone in teh darbaar.
19. If you see someone else talking, kindly ask them to quiet down.
20. for ANY seva in the darbaar, your hands MUST be washed and you should have a hazooria (long piece of cloth around your neck)
21. For deg di seva, hands obviously must be thoroughly washed. When giving out deg, don't talk to people.. dont even sing "satnam vaheguru" (or whatever they're singing) with the rest of the sangat because its possible that some spit from your mouth could fall into the deg. the best thing to do would be to wrap your hazooria around your mouth.
22. In the langar hall, while doing seva, hands MUST once again be thoroughly washed. This is very important.
23. If you're serving langar, dont talk to teh people unnecessarily.
24. When your serving OR eating langar, your head must be covered.
25. Dont go boasting to people of how much seva you do (or how many times you go to the gurdwara), this just defeats the whole purpose.
26. The Gurdwara is not a social place. You dont go to meet up with people or to show off your new suit.
27. Don't push when you're in line to matha taak. This seems to be more of a problem with the women.
28. Do not bow down to anything other than Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee; this is considered an insult to Maharaj jee. Even if there is another pothi in the darbaar with other bani in it, the ultimate jyot of Guru Sahib is in SGGS.
29. Try to sit cross legged when in the gurdwara.
30. Don’t sit against the wall, please reserve this area for the elderly.
31. Don’t sit at the back, find a nice spot from where you can pay attention to what is going on.
32. Dont bring any food into the darbaar
33. Teach your kids the proper way to matha tek. Some kids throw money towards SGGSJ like they're doing Guru ji a favor and then don't even bow down.
34. NO GUM!!!!!!
35. Try to stay inside the gurudwara at most times. You disturb people when you go in and out ....or if you know you're going to leave in the middle of the services, sit near the exit.
36. Participate in the programme currently going on in Gurudwara sahib like if Kirtan is going on then sit and listen and try to understand the Kirtan. Many people start doing other Paath (sukhmani sahib or others) in the Gurudwara Hall when Kirtan or katha (lectures on gurmat) are going on. A student (Sikh) should listen to what is going on (katha/ kirtan) in classroom (gurudwara) at that particular period of time. If any body really needs to do other paath then they should go to a separate room instead of doing it in the main hall.
37. The Gurdwara is not a playground, if you wanna play, play outside, not in the guru darbar or guru ka langar.
38. No Gameboys or any other portable game consoles or mobile phones with games. I have seen teenagers playing these during a diwan (session in the gurdwara).
39. No T-shirts or clothes with offensive writing like FCUK tops or beer ads or anything anti-Gurmat.
40. When coming to the Gurdwara, try to spend more time in the darbar rather then spending more time outside talking. Some people might spend 15mins in the darbar and then 2-3 hours talking outside. As mentioned before, the gurdwara is not a social meeting place.
41. Teach younger kids to sit inside the darbar... they're never going to learn anything if they play outside during kirtan!!
42. Try to stay in the darbar for as long as the program is going on. Stay to listen to the hukamnama, even if you don’t understand. If Guru Gobind Singh jee was giving an order to his Sikhs, you would most likely want to stay and hear what he has to say. Same thing at the gurdwara.
Vaheguroo jee ka Khalsa Vaheguroo jee kee Fateh!!!
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Kulbir Singh
Date: 7/11/2004 7:55 pm
Excellent points. Thanks for pointing them out.
Daas,
Kulbir Singh
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : yo
Date: 7/11/2004 8:50 pm
this is on www.sikhsangat.com
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : hurt
Date: 7/11/2004 11:17 pm
i have noticed some girls talking and gigling in darbar sahib..somtimes very annoying....they disturbe our concentration ..somtimes it is thier attention to do that. They sometimes look at you at even laugh gigle lauder.
there were once ...one of them told me that it is alright to do that because they are sitting in "maharaj dhi godh" so it is ok to be happy and giggle around. i was so upset with the answer and kept quiet because i know there are times when they do that just to hurt another person feeling.
May Guru Maharaj forgive them.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Wondering
Date: 7/12/2004 6:56 am
I am glad someone pointed out the wearing of approriate t-shirts. I have even seen a keshdari teenager in the UK walk in to the darbar sahib with tracksuit top that read F***.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : RK
Date: 7/12/2004 11:49 am
>I am glad someone pointed out the wearing of approriate t-shirts. I have even seen a keshdari teenager in the UK walk in to the darbar sahib with tracksuit top that read F***.<
Why wear t shirts at all? I personally think that if you are going to visit guru ji, you should wear his uniform, either cholaa or kurta or a really simple suit, and not western clothing.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/12/2004 1:46 pm
One thing that really annoys me is punjabi weddings. I get so irritated and yes angry when i attend them that I just walk out of the hall before I stand up and start screaming at the top of my lungs. Mostly I try to avoid them, even if they are close family, I dont go.
Why? because as soon as you walk in the hall all you can hear is 1000 punjabi women (who are dressed as gaudy and nasty as you can think of) talking and talking and talking. even if keertan is going and the speakers are at full blast, you still cant hear it!!
And they dont shut up. I have heard the granthis sometimes get up and say please keep it down, but they just start talking again. What is wrong with them? do they have no respect? isnt it enough disprespect to guru sahib that youve come dolled up like some hindu prostitute but now you have to sit there talking and talking in the darbar sahib?
and then, the way the bride and groom dress (ie mona with a starched pughree and girl in a big red lenga with all these piercings and banga) are just so... GROSS!!! then they do all these rituals before and after that just make no sense and have no place in gurmat.
WHYYYY
the disrespect is so immense at these sham anand karajs. why do we even allow it? committees' thirst for money is shameless!
anyway what really makes me mad is how they just talk and talk with no regard for bani or anything. I just want to get up and scream "SHUTUP OR ILL COME OVER THERE AND SHUT YOU UP!!!"
ok so I will be quiet now....
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : .....
Date: 7/12/2004 5:50 pm
mkhalsa!!! i totally know where you're coming from!!!! arrrghhh punjabi weddings are soooo unbelievably annoying!!!
my OWN parents get mad when i try to wear something simple to a wedding.... apparently they forget that we're going to the gurdwara also, not *just* a wedding... or the gurdwara part of it is like just a side thing... no real siginificance... one time i wore a chola... my mom was pissed for a while...
one thing that really makes me mad is how the brides and all her "bridesmaids" show up in a limo....i wonder who would've done that in guru gobind singh jee's time... and how the guy poses as a sikh *just* for the wedding, like why be oblivious to gurmat for your whole life and then try to pass as a gursikh for a day?!?!
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : 10
Date: 7/12/2004 6:12 pm
That is unbelievable how people act when they are sitting in front of Guru Granth Sahib. They should be sitting in fear of the Guru, or in fear of doing something that might disrespect Guru Jee.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Hardkaur
Date: 7/12/2004 6:27 pm
Mkhalsa Veerjee....
I understand your pain and annoyance but you don't have to lash out at them. They will never understand. Once I told a bunch of auntian that the langar hall is not for talking and one goes back to me...."teri maa nai ih sakhayaa?" (did your mom teach you this?)
So just be a a positive example. Close your eyes so you dont see any of it and sing keertan as loud as you can so you don't hear any of it.
Be thankful that you are sitting on the other side while we have to sit amongst the noise.
-Hardkaur
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/12/2004 10:33 pm
>>>Close your eyes so you dont see any of it and sing keertan as loud as you can so you don't hear any of it.<<<
Bhenji I tried this. One time I was at a taksali gurudwara and the raagis were doing suchhhh beatifulllllllll keertan. It was like amazing and heart peircing. But the ladies, they just wouldnt stop talking. Just got louder and louder. I was about to cry. I just got up and walked out until the wedding was over.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Wondering
Date: 7/13/2004 2:55 am
Unless it's a GurSikh couple, I don't bother attending Anand Karajs anymore. I just get wound up by all the baydbi.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/13/2004 6:58 am
MKhalsa Bhaji wrote:-
"isnt it enough disprespect to guru sahib that youve come dolled up like some hindu prostitute but now you have to sit there talking and talking in the darbar sahib?"
Whilst I understand and share your concern at the lack of protocal observed within the Gurdwara, I see no reason to brandish frankly racist and provocative language as you have above in referring to people as "Hindu Prostitute", perhaps you consider this acceptable, but I am rather surprised that a well-known and respect Gursikh Bhaji such as yourself would need to use such an extreme generalisation and grossly insulting term to get a point across.
Surely if it is deemed acceptable for the term prostitute to be used on the grounds that make-up is not Gurmat and the lady's look like Hindu women (presumably because they are not in Bana/Keski), hence the general supposition that all non-Bana women (i.e. all non-Sikh women and Sikh women who do not wear a keski) are "prostitutes", then this seems to be no different from the gross generalisations we hear about Sardars being "more brawn than brains", or drunkards and womanisers, not to mention the fact that such a view clearly shows total disregard to the instructions of all puratan rehitnamas with regard to the treatment of women in general.
This much said, I will admit that perhaps I am reading too much into your statement and would prefer for you to expand on your position so that it is clearer and to prevent any jumping to conclusions.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : haha
Date: 7/13/2004 10:38 am
wait a second....y r only women being blamed? guys talk just as much as girls do. i agree that girls talk a whole lot more but it's usually the young guys that walk in, sit down and start fooling around, laughin hysterically, or even swearing...not at anyone in particular but just among themselves.
and i also find "hindu prostitute" to be a hurtful comment to sikh women and hindu women...r u saying that all hindu women r prostitutes then? u should choose ur words more carefully...
and btw...fcuk is a clothing company...not jus some messed up way to write the f word although its being mistaken for it...
just my opinioins...bhul chuk maaf jee
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Rashpal Singh
Date: 7/13/2004 11:23 am
I totally agree with 'RK'. If you are going to the gurdwara then you should wear bana, as a gurdwara is like a school for us where we learn, so we should also wear a uniform there (bana).
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Darshan Singh
Date: 7/13/2004 5:09 pm
Vaheguroo Jee Kaa Khalsa
Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!!
I agree with A Singh completely. We can't just call women prostitutes because they wear a certain style of clothing. That's certainly an elitist way of thinking that anybody who doesn't wear what you deem acceptable is a prostitute. You should take back your remarks MKhalsa.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/13/2004 5:30 pm
A Singh, You are reading way too much into it veer. I meant hindu as in they are dressed in hindu bana, many times sarees and lengas and all the hindu jewelry like bindis and all that.. and the mehndi what not..
prostitutes I meant in that they look like prostitutes with such makeup and provacative dress which is wholey innapropriate for any religious (or even family oriented) setting. Even my own family members must come in with a face painted white like a clown and bright red lips. In whose twisted world does this look beautiful? even gorae would cringe.
Regarding haha, I am not just blaming women but in my experience, at least to weddings I have been to, the mens side is infinitely quieter. All the noise is coming from the womens side, louder than the speakers, its pretty easy to figure out which ear all the noise is coming into.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : jk
Date: 7/13/2004 6:54 pm
the only gurmat anand kaaraj that i have heard about recently is the one that just happened at tapoban sahib... for the detailed report of which the cyber sangat is awaiting patiently.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/14/2004 2:42 pm
Mkhalsa Bhaji, thanks for coming back to me on this. Maybe I am reading too much into it, however others have also picked you up on this point and so perhaps it is worth discussing this further to ensure we do not misunderstand anything being said.
You indicated in your response that by "hindu", you meant that they are dressed in "hindu bana", which you qualified as being "sarees and lengas"
and "hindu jewelry" together with "mehndi".
Maybe I am not so learned or experienced, so please could you explain a few things on these points before we proceed further:-
1. "Hindu Bana" -What exactly is "Bana" for a Hindu? You have on previous occasions here and on other forums indicated during discussions concerning Kesh and Keski that "even Hindu sadhus" maintained "kesh" and "Dastaar" yet rather later go on to state that not wearing a keski is makes one appear Hindu and hence is manmat. Similarly you here refer to "Hindu Bana", however if one looks at Hindu Rajput Warriors, they maintain Kesh, Shasters and Kach too and likewise Hindu Sadhus maintains Kesh too -so what exactly do we make of "hindu bana"? Saffron?
2. You later referred to Hindu Bana as "sarees and lengas", now are these actually "hindu" or more regional for instance Gujrati and Punjabi? If the latter, in the case of a lenga, well did you not refer to the wedding as a Punjabi wedding, so surely they would wear Punjabi clothing? Also, if I was to suppose that you would define "sikh bana" as a chola, kamarkasa etc (given a much early post on this subject in which you wrote at length as to why this should be worn by Men and Woman alike), then would this qualify all Sikh women wearing a Salwar Kameez as being in "muslim bana"...or perhaps if they are wearing make up as "muslim prostitutes" if we are to follow the line of thought from both your posts, on which note...
3. You also spoke of "hindu jewellery", is this jewellery of dieties or of OM signs or just anything made of gold and/or not Sarabloh? Would a discreet gold/silver chain with a Khanda embelm also qualify as "hindu" in this context?
4. Mendhi -I was always under the impression this was a distinctly Muslim tradition? Hence probably influenced much of Punjabi and North Indian culture? Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Bhaji, you then explained your use of the term "prostitutes" in that you consider these women to "look like prostitutes" that "even gorae would cringe" should they see them.
I must ask now, the following questions:
5. Since when have Gorae become a barometer by which we seek to measure our religious, cultural or social beliefs?
6. Bhaji, unless I am mistaken, in short, what you are saying is that women who wear make-up look like "prostitutes" and "clowns" (and by someone of your stature calling them as such, it seems to indicate that it is perfectly within Gurmat to call them as such?). What I would really like to understand therefore is, if this is correct, then this would imply that any woman -sikh or otherwise, who is not wearing Bana (i.e. Keski, Chola, Kamarkasa etc) is at best anti-Gurmat and in your words, with the addition of jewellery and make-up (which we are realistic, many women of all traditions and walks of life will use albeit very subtly or more heavily) this would make them worthy of being called "prostitutes" and/or "Hindu Prostitutes"?
Hence, for example, present day Sikh women such as Gurpreet Rai (Historian), The Singh Sisters (Artists) or even mothers of many gursikh families and/or members of this forum qualify in light of the above as "Hindu Prostitutes" in your opinion, which I make I assumption is backed by Gurmat, since you previously indicated that you are "facist for Gurmat"?
I am sorry for the length of this post, however the comments made in this thread can give a misleading impression to others reading your posts and in view of your position as a respected member of the forum, it is perhaps best we have this clarified to avoid any issue with non-Sikhs or impressionable young Sikhs visiting this forum and taking away with them some questionable opinions of Sikh attitudes towards women.
I hope in view of this, you understand my asking all these additional questions.
Thanks Bhaji.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/14/2004 8:39 pm
Hahaha.. this is a bit amusing....
1. "Hindu Bana" -What exactly is "Bana" for a Hindu? You have on previous occasions here and on other forums indicated during discussions concerning Kesh and Keski that "even Hindu sadhus" maintained "kesh" and "Dastaar" yet rather later go on to state that not wearing a keski is makes one appear Hindu and hence is manmat.
Singh to be honest, I cant remember what I wrote an hour ago, nevermind posts you are referencing from over a week ago, I have a bad memory.
This is an argument someone made against be before and I chose to ignore it. If one realizes what context I was saying it in, its kind of obvious what I meant. Hindu sadhus/saints do keep a top knot, this is a tradition, even look at the budda. Not wearing a keski, cuases so called sikh women to appear as hindu WOMEN. There are not many hindu sadhus that I have heard of, and have not seen such that wear a top knot. these are two entirely and unrelated things and pulled from unrelated topics!
Similarly you here refer to "Hindu Bana", however if one looks at Hindu Rajput Warriors, they maintain Kesh, Shasters and Kach too and likewise Hindu Sadhus maintains Kesh too -so what exactly do we make of "hindu bana"? Saffron?
hindu bana, most people would agree when you think of an indian lady u see a girl in a sari with tannish skin wearing a bindi, makeup etc. thats what I think of when i think of what a hindu woman looks like, in general. this is accepted by most people.
2. You later referred to Hindu Bana as "sarees and lengas", now are these actually "hindu" or more regional for instance Gujrati and Punjabi?
See above. Again you are reading way too much into my comments.
If the latter, in the case of a lenga, well did you not refer to the wedding as a Punjabi wedding, so surely they would wear Punjabi clothing?
you would think.
Also, if I was to suppose that you would define "sikh bana" as a chola, kamarkasa etc (given a much early post on this subject in which you wrote at length as to why this should be worn by Men and Woman alike), then would this qualify all Sikh women wearing a Salwar Kameez as being in "muslim bana"
yes it would.
...or perhaps if they are wearing make up as "muslim prostitutes" if we are to follow the line of thought from both your posts, on which note...
*sigh*
3. You also spoke of "hindu jewellery", is this jewellery of dieties or of OM signs or just anything made of gold and/or not Sarabloh?
hindu jewelry, typical indian jewelry such as nose peircings, those things that go from nose to ear, nose to forehead, etc. they look GROSS.
Would a discreet gold/silver chain with a Khanda embelm also qualify as "hindu" in this context?
no, but its completely manmat and a disgrace. the khanda is not a gang symbol.
4. Mendhi -I was always under the impression this was a distinctly Muslim tradition? Hence probably influenced much of Punjabi and North Indian culture? Please correct me if I am mistaken.
you are right. it is a muslim tradition. This is what i mean, why cant they follow tat gurmat khalsa traditions instead of indulging in useless rituals from others?
Bhaji, you then explained your use of the term "prostitutes" in that you consider these women to "look like prostitutes" that "even gorae would cringe" should they see them.
I must ask now, the following questions:
5. Since when have Gorae become a barometer by which we seek to measure our religious, cultural or social beliefs?
most eastern people see the gorae as how bad it can get. most western cultures have dropped the good things eastern culture has. such as family/cummunal belonging. communal nature. pyaar for one another, looking out for each other. DECENCY would be a major one. As soon as summer hits they think its alright to walk around naked in the streets.
i am using them as a gage to say, at least they have the decency not to paint themselves up that gross. normally u only see prostitutes in the west who wear so much makeup. and perhaps I am over using the word, but its true, thats just what the image of a girl dolled up like that gives me.
6. Bhaji, unless I am mistaken, in short, what you are saying is that women who wear make-up look like "prostitutes" and "clowns"
somewhat, when its outright gaudy and tacky, definitely YES.
(and by someone of your stature
my stature? I have no stature. I am just a stupid kid.
calling them as such, it seems to indicate that it is perfectly within Gurmat to call them as such?).
when have I ever been a pillar of gurmat? I never said it was gurmat to insult anyone. I insult people - take from that what you will.
What I would really like to understand therefore is, if this is correct, then this would imply that any woman -sikh or otherwise, who is not wearing Bana (i.e. Keski, Chola, Kamarkasa etc) is at best anti-Gurmat and in your words, with the addition of jewellery and make-up (which we are realistic, many women of all traditions and walks of life will use albeit very subtly or more heavily) this would make them worthy of being called "prostitutes" and/or "Hindu Prostitutes"?
no. only those who try to pass themselves off as some kind of gursikh, when outwardly they refuse to even try to look like a gursikh.
Hence, for example, present day Sikh women such as Gurpreet Rai (Historian), The Singh Sisters (Artists) or even mothers of many gursikh families and/or members of this forum qualify in light of the above as "Hindu Prostitutes" in your opinion, which I make I assumption is backed by Gurmat, since you previously indicated that you are "facist for Gurmat"?
no comment.
I am sorry for the length of this post, however the comments made in this thread can give a misleading impression to others reading your posts and in view of your position as a respected member of the forum, it is perhaps best we have this clarified to avoid any issue with non-Sikhs or impressionable young Sikhs visiting this forum and taking away with them some questionable opinions of Sikh attitudes towards women.
truthfully, I couldnt care less what non sikhs, young sikhs, etc think of me. I really dont care about others opinions.
the sikh attitude towards women is that they deserve equality. they dont deserve to be dolled up like prostitutes (theres the word again) and led around like puppies and treated like animals. Sikh women are distinct in this world. gursikh singhnees are queens. and as such, if one wishes to be a queen, they must first look like one and act like one.
--Manjot Singh Khalsa
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/15/2004 7:09 am
Bhaji, thanks for coming back to me again and taking time to expand on this further.
Manjot Bhaji, I feel you may have misunderstood what I have said in various places, in particular my closing comments, I am not taking about what people think of you, I refer to the impression the comments you have made will leave upon people or impression youngsters about "Sikhs" in general -certainly, I would not like for anyone to think it is deemed acceptable social behaviour let alone "Gurmat" to refer to woman who do not happen to conform one's personal understanding as "prostitutes".
Moreover, making this in association with the use of the term Hindu, in essence indicating that all Hindu women are prostitute (given your definitions of what a Hindu woman looks like above) -surely this is not a stance taken from a Gurmat perspective?
I appreciate that you may not consider yourself to be someone influential, however even looking at the posts on this thread, you are someone that many people refer to directly and someone who freely offers much advice to people expressing various personal concerns, for which reason I would see you as someone who holds significant stature, particularly since you are known to many in the US and UK. This is before we get to the work you have done on your sites.
Even with this much aside, you are a Singh and from pictures you have shown from time to time, one who wears full (Nihang) bana with much pride, hence you are an ambassador for Kalgidhar Shamsher Pita Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, hence why I have asked for the above mentioned comments to be clarified as I must admit I have found them to be a little confusing coming from a Gursikh who speaks so valiantly about Tat Gurmat Maryada.
Bhaji, please let me know if essentially what you are saying is that all non-sikh women (i.e. any woman from any culture/way of life) not maintaining their kesh or not wearing a keski qualify, albeit in your supposedly "light" use of the term "prostitute"?
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/15/2004 11:31 am
>>>Bhaji, please let me know if essentially what you are saying is that all non-sikh women (i.e. any woman from any culture/way of life) not maintaining their kesh or not wearing a keski qualify, albeit in your supposedly "light" use of the term "prostitute"?<<<<
No singh, I didnt say that. As I said before, I was using this in reference to those that purport themselves as sikh but refuse to do anything sikh-like. At least try!
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/15/2004 11:33 am
Actually, in a way, yes many others are prostitutes. Look at so-called normal people, you may work with them, go to school with them. They pluck themselves like turkeys, wax off all their hair and then say they are civilized. All of this for what reason? "to look hot" ?
what is that? its entirely a kaami thing. Everything they do to look "beautiful" is for kaam! they are slaves to it. Most people today sleep around with multiple partners. They have no shame. They will walk around naked in the streets. If this is not the definition of a prostitute. what is?
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Admin
Date: 7/15/2004 2:14 pm
We are receiving emails making personal attacks under this thread. Hence, this thread is closed now.
Admin.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : kar kirpaa sabh rayN thheevaa
Date: 7/16/2004 1:54 am
It is unfortunate that the post ended in this way.
However I make an appeal to the ADMIn that you please compile all the "Gurdwara" etiquettes and post them in the Articles section so it does not get lost in all the posts...
please consider it.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/16/2004 6:41 am
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
SIGH .......SIGH.... what a complete WASTE of a really good topic for youths to learn...
Living in Malaysia thousands of miles away...I had absolutely no problem getting through to exactly what Mkhalsa was trying to say.....but some people decided to "analyse" "dissect" every word to make "silk purses" out of "sow's ears ".....
and thus the thread "died" an untimely death..... with a great loss to only those wanting to learn something...( perhaps a victory of sorts to those who attack the person and not the ideas !!!!)
I endorse veer Ji Kirpa's suggestion to add this Gurdwara Etiquette to Articles Section.
Dass jarnail Singh
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : J Singh
Date: 7/19/2004 2:14 pm
My post probably wouldn't be allowed but I am writing it anyway..
I agree with the rules listed above but I am one of the people who has problem with millions and millions of daughters, sisters and mothers who don't wear cholas to Guruduaras being called "Hindu Prostitutes". Why use such degrading language? May be, we should ask Akaal Takht Sahib to issue a hukamnama that prohibits all women wearing traditional colorful Punjabi dresses, make-up or jewelry from entering Gurduaras! On the same token, why allow monai, non-amritdharis into Gurughar at all? They aren't listening to what Guruji is asking them to follow!
Gurbani doesn't teach us to judge others without knowing them. Gurmukh suppose to be humble (nimaana) and should refrain from thinking that he knows everything. It's absolutely absurd to think that people who dress up are slaves to kaam. I know gursikhs who take pride in wearing their cholas and tieing their domallas in a certain way to distinguish themselves. Nothing wrong with that! If we care to look around, Vaheguru's nature is full of countless magics of colors and fragrances.
Bhul chuk de maafi.
Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Ke Fateh!!!
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/20/2004 6:38 am
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
SEE your post was allowed. Please give Admin some credit. IMHO so far only posts with vulgar/gross language get 'edited".....not supposedly "opposing" ideas.
I too dont agreew with the word "HP"...its too strong...and yes millions of our sisters mothers and daughters dont wear cholas dastaars and still go to Gurdwaras.....BUT i think the problem is not so much at GURDWARAS as at WEDDING DINNER RECEPTIONS.... In a Gurdwara everyone keeps some decorum at least....But at the dinner reception it is free for all...lenghas and jewellery, low cuts and backs removed...everything is OK...THAT is NOT our Culture and should be toned down.
Gurbani doesnt teach anyone to "judge"...immaterail whether you "know" them or not...HOW can we mere mortals really KNOW anyone ?? Can we see into his/her heart ?? Apperances can and do decieve. ONLY WAHEGURU has the Capacity to really JUDGE anyone and we should leave that to HIM.
When we "look" superficially at a person wearing a chola kamarkassa dumalla etc and say" what a Gurmukh" and then at a lengha wearing low cut lady and say" "HP"... we are actually making a fool of ourselves.... the HP looking LDY may be a GURMUKH and the "gurmukh" looking person may be a great THUGG...so PLEASE leave the judging to Waheguru.
Bhul Chuk Maaf as well
dass Jarnail singh.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/20/2004 11:05 am
allow me to clarify, i wasnt talking about everyone, i was mostly referring to weddings when people are dolled up, and regarding dont talk about people yuou dont know, i was talking about people i am related to and/or their friends.
anyway, I will keep quiet on this topic now..
regarding the original post, its a good post and we should think of more stuff to add.
some people do not wash their hands before doing seva, this is an important thing.
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/20/2004 9:44 pm
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
And if one has a cold/cough/dripping nose..... one should keep away from seva of distributing deg/langgar etc as well.... Nails should be clean and CUT ( nothing is grosser than a deg sewadaar with long dirty nails..)
IN MALAYSIA we have this problem because the GRANTHI/KIRTANIYA/Kathawachak etc who are in Clean white Cholas etc WONT go near the DEG..... "volunteers" from the Sangat are "drafted" to distribute deg...and some are young boys hardly able to carry the battas, and old men with flowing beards who cant balance the bata as well as walk steadily...or just about anybody who wants to do this seva...if you "scold" them or tell them anything about cleanliness etc the next time they wont volunteer !!!
and people like me with flowing dharras should have some way of keeping the dharra hairs from dipping into the deg batta....
lots more points can be brought up.
dass jarnail singh
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : it's all good and true
Date: 7/21/2004 1:24 am
rule number 124071294:
saach kahou(n) sun layho sabhai
jin praym keeo thin hee prabh paaeio
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/21/2004 12:36 pm
>>>>people like me with flowing dharras should have some way of keeping the dharra hairs from dipping into the deg batta....<<<<
just wrap your hazooria around :D
Re: Gurdwara Etiquette
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/24/2004 9:52 am
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
I have my hazooria.... the Granthi hangs his hazooria on a killi behind the Guru granth sahib Jee ( its use is apparently only in the Darbar sahib and ONLY for ARDASS )
The trouble is with the "weekend only" types who turn up with open dharras only on Sunday diwan ( rest of the week tied up dharras).... due to dharra only opened for a day..it is itchy and they keep scratching and also insist on deg sewa...and Hazooria ?? Am I granthi?? Do i look like a granthi to you ? they say.... even the granthi uses the hazooria for only Ardass....and then hangs it up.
Dass Jarnail singh
Dass jarnail singh.
