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fateh. how is it actually spelled
Posted by: Abhiyaasee (IP Logged)
Date: June 13, 2008 05:07AM

is fateh spelled with a:

"sihaaree" before the "h" or

before the "t" or

totally without "sihaaree"

the fateh of: waheguru jee kaa khalsaa waheguru jee kee fateh

 



Re: fateh. how is it actually spelled
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 13, 2008 07:57AM

The most common spellings used now a days is with a sihaari on the haaha i.e. as ਫਤਹਿ. This form is not there anywhere in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

In Gurbani, Siri Guru jee has used a sihaari on the thatha i.e. as follows:

ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ ਫਾਹੇ ਕਾਟੇ ਮਿਟੇ ਗਵਨ ਫਤਿਹ ਭਈ ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਥਿਤ ਪਾਈ ਫਿਰਨ ਮਿਟੇ ਨਿਤ ਨੀਤ ॥1॥

If you want to write as this word is written in Farsi, then it should be written as follows: ਫਤਹ and the uchaaran is ਫਤਾਹ. Some old gutkas contains the spellings as ਫਤਹ .

Not sure which one is correct. I personally use the prevelant spellings now a days i.e. ਫਤਹਿ, when typing or writing in Punjabi. . This does not mean that we are doing the right thing.

Kulbir Singh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2008 08:03AM by admin.

 



Re: fateh. how is it actually spelled
Posted by: M Singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 14, 2008 10:18AM

Bhai Sahib Jee
Here is copy of the mail, earlier posted, to Admn.

"Dear Bhai Sahib Ji
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Fateh on the tapoban website is without Sihari. If
possible, Correct it by putting Sihari to second
letter.This comment is from Master Jaswant Singh Ji, Amritsar.
With thanks.
M Singh"

 



Re: fateh. how is it actually spelled
Posted by: freed (IP Logged)
Date: June 16, 2008 05:38AM

Another variation of spelling is ਫਤੇ - This can be seen in these 3 documents

a Hukumnama from Baba Banda Singh Ji (Banda Bahadar), dated CE 12 Dec 1710 (Bikrami Poh 12 1767) addressed to the Sangat of Jaounpur.
The Hukum starts with ੴ ਫਤੇ ਦਰਸਨੁ (Ek Onkaar Fateh Darsan)


http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7964/dsc03833vg7.jpg



a Hukumnama from Takht Sri Harmandir Sahib, Patna. Addressed to the Sangat of Katangar.Dated Magh Sudi 5 Bikrami 1918 (CE 4 Feb 1862)

The Hukumnama starts with ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤੇ (Ek Onkaar Sri Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh) - also note the spelling of ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ - without the ਸਿਹਾਰੀ (sihari)

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7940/dsc03837bu6.jpg

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/701/dsc03838yx5.jpg


A document bearing the mohur (seal) of Sri Akal Takht Sahib - outlining the maryada for Amrit Sanchaar - dated 1934 Bikrami (CE 1877) - it reads ਅੰਮਿ੍ਤ ਛਕਨੇ ਵਾਲਾ ਕਹੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤੇ ( Amrit cchakney vala kahe sri Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh )

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/48/dsc04157jy7.jpg



*pictures from

Randhawa, T S. The Sikhs. Images of a Heritage. Prakash. New Delhi. 2000.

Singh, Ganda. Hukumnamey. Panjabi University. Patiala. 1999.



I would love to hear respected Bhai Sahib, Kulbir Singh ji's thoughts on the reason behind the variant spellings. I read in some of your previous posts that you have studied Persian - can you read the Mohur on Banda Bahadur's hukumnama ? . How would you write it in Gurmukhi Lipi ? is the Fateh part written as ਫਤਹ , ਫਤਾਹ or ਫ਼ੁਤਹਿ - I have seen it written as all three and would really appreciate your opinion.

Many Thanks.


Gurfateh !

Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

 



Re: fateh. how is it actually spelled
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 18, 2008 08:11AM

Veer Ranjit Singh jeeo,

I totally missed this variant of ਫਤੇ.

As for the reasons behind these different variants, I would have to say that people have written it the way they thought it was pronounced. Depending on how educated you are and what geographical area you are from, you pronounce certain words that way. Gurbani has spelled many words depending on how they were pronounced by people with different accents. This is why Gurbani has different spellings for the same words e.g. karan is spelled as ਕਰਨ and ਕਰਣ. I think a similar thing happened with the word fateh.

I did learn some Farsi but I am not very fluent in it. The inscription is not very clear and is somewhat difficult to read for a beginner. I will try to spend some more time to decipher what's written on the seal of Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: fateh. how is it actually spelled
Posted by: freed (IP Logged)
Date: June 20, 2008 01:00PM

Many Thanks for your reply Bhai Sahib.

Here is a detail of the seal

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2698/dsc04160op8.jpg

 



Re: fateh. how is it actually spelled
Posted by: M Singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 23, 2008 11:06AM

Dear Bhai sahib Ji

According to Master Ji, The persion pronunciation as told by Veer Kulbir Singh Ji, is not correct with kanna to second letter, but it is so with Sihari to second letter. It is spelled with "Zer" in persion.

The seal reads " Az Nanak Guru Gobind Singh
Bedrang Yaafat-----------"
The third line could not be deciphered.

 





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