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'sahib'...'sahib'...'sahib'...
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: June 01, 2008 05:11PM

can someone explain to me about the word sahib

i know it occurs in Gurbani, used like words such as meeth, yaar, sajjan are.

but im talking in general modern usage. i mean whenever i read anything sikh related it read likes this: 'sahib...sahib...sahib' gets very monotonous. i must admit its kind of irritating. why do people do this? is this a modern thing? what exactly is the point of using this word in such a manner?

also, i dont understand how a place can be designated as sahib. how can we call Harimandir Sahib? its a place not a person. infact what about callng places 'sachkhand'- such as Hazoor Guruduara. Sachkhand is not a building or specific site. is it?

hope i have not caused offense.

 



Re: 'sahib'...'sahib'...'sahib'...
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: June 03, 2008 05:09PM

can no one shed some light?

 



Re: 'sahib'...'sahib'...'sahib'...
Posted by: Bundha (IP Logged)
Date: June 04, 2008 07:36AM

To be honest Navjot, I find your post irritating.

This type of "kintu printu" never got anyone anywhere. I fail to see the purpose of your post, which is probably the reason why it has been ignored.

Sabib is a word most respected. When ever you address someone very high you add Sahib, just as you add the word Ji when addressing your father or mother, even uncle becomes uncle ji, so why would you find Sahib irritating in the context of our Gurus or our pavitar asthaans ?????

Blessed are those lips that give ustat and adhave to our Guru, let me say a thousand Sahibs when I address Guru Sahib Ji. Cursed is my lips that forever does other peoples nindhia and chuggli.


Why not use Sahib when saying Harmindar Sahib, you think we should address our holy of holies just as "Harmindar" ???? come on yaar what planet are you one ???

 



Re: 'sahib'...'sahib'...'sahib'...
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: June 04, 2008 06:22PM

im glad you were irriated because you can at least understand how i feel. except i also feel bemused. so please help this poor murakh.

i dont know what kintu printu means, sorry, and i thought the purpose of my post was for an explanation (which you did try and provide so thanks).

repeating a phrase has 3 effects:
1. the word loses its meaning
2. conversations flow becomes kind of jarring
3. person using word of flattery over and over again starts to sound either sycophantic or else insincere

what is wrong with just saying Guru Nanak? I do not think Guru needs flattery.

the most i can deduce is that this repitive 'flattery'-tendency is one of those 'bad habits' picked up from urdu and hindi.

Who addresses anyone as Sahib these days? this just bring back colonial images of subservient indians addressing their colonial masters.

how can anyone *give* 'ustat' to our Guru? To state the truth the ustat occurs spontaeneously. There is no need to 'give'.

To answer your question I guess I find it irritating as it 1)used reptitively, 2) doesnt make sense in some contexts 3) does seem to have a sincere motivation behind it (as evidenced by 1 and 2)

I mean, what exactly is wrong with calling It simply Harimandar or Harmandar? Seriously I do not see what is so wrong about that?

Maybe if offends people with pseudo-urdu/hindi mentality, 'yaar'.

 



Re: 'sahib'...'sahib'...'sahib'...
Posted by: Bundha (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 05:24AM

Whatever Navjot, you don't want to do it, don't. Sorry mate but I have better things to do.

 



Re: 'sahib'...'sahib'...'sahib'...
Posted by: Harcharan Singh (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 05:52AM

"repeating a phrase has 3 effects:
1. the word loses its meaning
2. conversations flow becomes kind of jarring
3. person using word of flattery over and over again starts to sound either sycophantic or else insincere"

Navjot Ji, how would reconcile your above position with 10th Masters hukum for all Khalsai to repeat Gur-Manter and Mool-Manter?

Sahib means Master and is derived from Arabi. Sikhs have been using this terms and many other Arabi/Farsi terms long before the British arrived.

Guru Granth SAHIB

SAHIBzadey

Guru SAHIBAN

The holy Takhts and other important Gurdwarai are refered to as Sahib.

If you really have a problem, then Sikhi is the wrong faith for you as our Guru SAHIBAN started the trend of using this term of invoking subservience, over 300 times in Aad Sri Guru Granth SAHIB Ji.

One can never do enough ustat - just read Dur ki Baani Akaal Ustat to see a supreme example.

 



Re: 'sahib'...'sahib'...'sahib'...
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: June 06, 2008 06:14AM

hello Harcharan Singh

oh come on now, you know what i was referring to and this comparison is ridiculous. Gurmantra and mool mantra is inward jap and naam seva. this is completely different from outward habits and using epithets. i think this much was obvious to anyone who reads this and i feel very bad that you resorted to such a tactic to try and undermine my statements. its dishonest and i am disappointed in you.

"Guru Granth SAHIB
SAHIBzadey
Guru SAHIBAN"

how do we know these were in use since Gurus time? do they occur in older texts like unedited janam sakhis and Gur Sobha? nb this is a genuine question if anyone does know. but even this is besides the point. Why cant we just say Guru Nanak or Guru without the Sahib everytime?

flattery is not praise. the motives are different. flattery is about self-interest. whereas when you see something great you give praise naturally and spontaenously.

if someone is/was great, that does not mean you have to keep addressing them as such continuously. otherwise the question arises as to who you are trying to convince.

yes i know that Sahib is used in Guru Granth. so does Yaar. but like Yaar, the way it is used seems different to the way those words are used nowadayes. In Guru Granth both words are used so sweetly.

the takhts seem to be a modern invention also. As far as I can tell there was only one takht- Akal Takht- that was Guru Hargobind's Takht. No one used it after it is certainly not for modern sikhs to sikh at and issue dictates. When and where did any Guru form of ours issue any takhts? but i digress. the point is it doesnt make sense to call a Guruduara or physical structure Sahib, not grammatically anyway. Just like saying, 'Holy Saint Vatican' or 'Ram mandir Acharya' doesnt make much sense. it just sounds like a habit invented by an illiterate person trying to impress other people.

"If you really have a problem, then Sikhi is the wrong faith for you as" again i feel bad that you would talk it upon yourself to make such statements. what gives you the right?

I know what Akaal Ustat is. again how low to try and use a comparison like that. Tell me, Akaal Ustat gives the nature of God but whose 'ustat' are you lot doing with repetitive use of sahib? you are just trying to make something great look good infront of others for some reason.

outward shows are empty.

 





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