Wahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa Wahiguru Jee Kee Fateh

Do the Singhs and Singhnis of Akhand Kirtani Jatha believe that our Guru Sahiban are Parmeshar/Nirankar/God. Some Missionary preachers take the literal meaning of following Tuk from Dasam Garanth while most Mahapurakhs believe and preach otherwise and allude that 'Hum' is meant people self-proclaiming to be God will go to Narak Kund.

"Jo Hum ko Parmeshar Ucharai Hai(n) te sabh narak kund mai(n) parhey"

Forgive me if I made a mistake above trying to write a Gurbani Tuk in romanized way. This new format of phorum is much nicer and easier to use.

Guru Sahab da nasamajh bacha

All Mahapurkhs promote that Guru and God are one and the same. Bani says this as well.
However, the worldly people proclaiming themselves to be God will suffer.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji says in Dasam Granth Sahib "dway tay eke roop aveh gey-hoe" That is to say the two (AkaalPurkh and Guru Sahib Ji) became One.

So there is no embeguity Guru Ji is Akaal Saroop, for there is no difference between the two.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Khalsa jio,

Let's see what jagat jot dhan dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee say about this which we can understand easily. Please have some one's assitance for arths if some feel difficulty understanding.

"Aap Narayan Kala Dhar Jag Mei(n) Parvario
Nirankar Aakar Jot Jag Mandal Karo
Jah Kah Tah Bharpoor Shabad Deepak Deepaio
Jih Sikhah Sangraho(n) Tat Har Charan Milaio"
(Panna 1385)

Translation of each tuk according to Bhai Manmohan Singh ji

1. Assuming power, the Primal Being, of Himself, has entered into the world in the form of the True Guru.
2. Assuming the form of Guru Amar Dass, the Formless Lord has shed light in the world realm.
3. The Lord is fully pervading every-where. It is the Guru, who has lighted the lamp of His Name.
4. Whosoever grasps the quintessence of the Guru's instruction, him the Guru unites with the Lord's feet.

Now in the wake of this there should be no doubt what Guru Sahib have said. At least Khalsaspirit.com do not have.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khlsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

To all the veers who posted. I whole heartedly agree with your posts. In my own mind I never had any doubts about Guru Sahiban being Nirankar themselves. There are countless other examples in Gurbani to confirm that Guru Sahibs are Sargun Saroop of Nirankar.

'Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani'

and then

'Vaho Vaho Bani Nirankar Hai'

Thus Guru Sahiban = Nirankar

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'Gur Govind Govind Guru hai Nanak Bhed Na Bhai'

Guru is God, God is Guru, Nanak does not the differentiate between these.

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The reason I posted on this forum is to gauge the opinion of Gursikhs on this forum about this subject. Many preachers are misleading Sikh sangat in believing otherwise. Some time back we sent my daughter to Sikh Camp in Los Angeles area. She came back really confused and conflicted. She told us that everyday camp director (missionary type) would force children to repeat after him 'Guru is Not God' many times mis-quoting the tuk from Dasam Patshah. It is very dangerous trend. Many of these same people are subtly spreading other FALSEHOOD such as

1. Guru Gobind Singh ji slaughtered Bakras (goats) instead and punj piyare did not give their shees to Guru Gobind Singh ji.

2. Hemkunt Sahib is hoax

3. Sakhi about Guru Nanak Devji and Macca and other such sakhis are myths.

4. Guru Nanak was born in Baisakh not Kattak.

5. Okay to eat Meat.


Iroinically, they never these things from stage but in small gatherings of 'Sikh Study Circle', 'Sikh Research Institutes', 'Gurmat Studies' and similar sounding names. There are many unkownn kala afghnas, Mcleod's, Pashaura Singhs etc whom we have to be vigilant about.

Forgive me for my rantings and if I offended anyone.

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh

On Ang 864 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji begins a shabad: -

"Gur Meri Pooja, Gur Gobind. Gur Mera Paar-Brahm, Gur Bhavant."

In this shabad, he describes all of the qualities of who his Guru is. In the end of this shabad, he says who his Guru is, and identifies who his Guru is. In doing so, Guru Sahib says: -

"Gur Nanak Nanak Har Soe."

Which means "Guru Nanak is my Guru, Nanak is the lord himself."
There is no difference between Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Waheguru.
There is no difference between all of the Guru Sahibaans.

Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj coind the term: -
"Dhan Guru Nanak Toohee Nirankaar"
"Great are you Guru Nanak, you are the Formless Lord"

Make no mistake, Guru Sahib is Nirankaar.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh

There is no doubt that Guru and Vaheguru are one and the same. Guru is a form of Vaheguru; formed to play the crucial role of freeing the Jeevs from Maya.

How do you explain the pankitis like:

Je Sabh hum ko Parmeshar uchhar hain, Tey sabh narak Kunt meh par hain||

The pankiti really is written by Siri Guru Dasmesh jee to avoid Sikhs to indulge in the pooja of "Guru Gobind Singh jee" instead of worshipping the Guru-jyot in Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has written an article on this subject in either Gurmat Lekh or Gurmat Parkash.

The previous avatars like Krishna and Rama did good works but ended up becomings gods themselves and having people worship them. This has been highlighted in Bachitter Natak by Siri Dasmesh jee. In other religions they say Jai Raam jee kee or Jai Sita Raam or Har Har Mahadev (referring to Shiv jee). But in Sikh faith, Guru Sahib never asked us to shout "Guru Gobind Singh Zindabad" or "Guru Gobind Singh kee jai". Instead, we are trained to say "Sat Sri Akaal" and thus paying homage to Vaheguru alone. We don't japp the Naam of any Guru and nor it is instructed in Gurbani to do so. We are instructed to japp Naam of Vaheguru. This is the greatness of the Ten Guru Sahibaan who were themselves Guru-form of Vaheguru but still instructed Sikhs to japp Naam of Vaheguru only.

This pankiti of Siri Dasmesh jee, quoted in the beginning, is true in the sense that whole of Vaheguru, who pervades the whole universe was not restricted in the human body of Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee as Hindus think he was in the body of Siri Krishna. Guru Arjun Dev jee has said it very clearly that let that mouth burn that says Thakur comes in joni (takes birth). Vaheguru (as a whole) is Ajooni i.e. never takes birth. Our Guru Sahibaan were a form of Vaheguru i.e. the Guru Form of Vaheguru, created to bring the lost jeev-aatmas on right path. The whole of universe has been given to the Guru-form of Vaheguru as per the following pankiti:

"Siri Guru Raaj, Abichal Attal, Aad Purakh Furmaaiyo||"
(The kingdom of Guru Nanak is eternal, so declared the Aad Purakh i.e. Vaheguru).

Daas,
Kulbir Singh