To begin with i am only interested in getting Amrit if possible without the need to make a decision to fly out of the UK to do so as if guru sahib has not blessed this part of the world with acceptable panj payare........ i am or have been, convinced that sarbloh is a rehit and those panj payare that don't tell you this will make your initiation experience not as 'suffle' as if you had panj payare that followed sarbloh.........but then i think what about Bhai rama singh who did not keep sarbloh even after having divine site of Guru gobind singh ji who told him that rehit is important and not the sikh.........surely after this he would have kept sarbloh if it prevented spiritual progress which it didn't.

I think that bibek is a minimum rehit. I would think of it as basic as kakaars really. If the punj pyaaray have no dietary bibek at all, it would seem to make them less than qualified.

Sarbloh Bibek also seems important to me. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that it "prevented" spiritual progress. I would say that it would slow it down and hinder it.

As a final note, I find that looking to individuals exclusively is the wrong thing to do. We should look to other Gursikhs for their qualities and try to adopt them. But when we look to other Gursikhs for justification for not keeping a rehit, it doesn't seem productive. Bhai Rama Singh was a blessed Gursikh. Why he didn't keep sarbloh bibek is only something he would know. But that doesn't in any way take away from Sarbloh bibek as a rehit or its importance.

I myself don't keep Sarbloh Bibek yet, but I hope to some day if and when Gurujee does kirpa. One thing I like to say is that when discussing Rehit with Rehitvaan Gurmukhs, I also use the same example of Bhai Rama Singh Ji and even Baba Nand Singh Ji who didn't keep Bibek and were still very much spiritually uplifted souls. Guru pyaareyo, it is always good to seek inspiration from such blessed souls, but a big blunder to dismiss the importance of certain Rehits as "not important" just because they didn't keep it. Lets turn around the question. Do I have that much Prem and Shardha for Gurujee's charan as much as they did? Do I have that much avastha by contemplating on Naam with every breath, saas-giraas? Can I visualize the jot of Akaal in every person I see/meet/interact with? If not, then what right do I have to claim anything? What right do I have to state my own personal opinion which is distorted as a result of my own dhill? Also it will be hypocritical of me to pick and chose what suits me or what I prefer. Then I am folowing the Sikhi I like, not the Sikhi of SatGuru Ji. Gurujee says "Rehit pyaari mujhko, Sikh pyara naahi". But if this Sikh says "XYZ Singh ji did this, so I am going to do the same", then he/she is following the Sikhi of XYZ Singh, not SatGuru Ji.

On the same note, if one is unable to follow certain Rehits due to whatever circumstances, then one must constantly beg Gurujee, do repeated Ardas that he/she may be able to keep them. If you have bairaag in yourself as a result of slacking in your Sikhi, if you feel depressed/hurt within your soul as a result of not being able to keep certain Rehits, you are still on track. This bairaag will attract the kirpa of SatGuru Ji and in due course you will be able to become Rehitvaan. Even if you are stuck in the quicksand of the 5 vikaars, this bairaag will not let you drown. It will act like "dubbde nu tinnke da sahara". You know why? Because this bairaag is also very rare, and this bairaag itself comes only from kirpa.

Also, I would request my veers not to judge the jeevan of the Panj Pyaare. Lets leave that to Gurujee as well.

Please forgive any vadh-ghatt in my words

bhull chukk maaf

The point I was trying to make is should i take amrit from panj payare that don't take sarbloh seriously themselves regardless of wether after amrit i follow sarbloh or not because panj payare seva is such a high seva that surely if this is a genuine rehit then they would follow it as part of their seva???

No matter which part of Gurmat we adopt, spiritual progress is a given. The more Gurmat we adopt, more kirpa we get and more spiritual progress we gain. To reach the topmost goal of the human life, i.e. darshan of Vaheguru, it’s a must that we strive to keep full rehit and do as much kamaayee of Naam and Gurbani as possible. We can’t pick and choose rehit. We must keep rehit.

As Veer Sardar Singh pointed out, not keeping full rehit slows us down and I would add that by not keeping full rehit or deliberately ignoring to keep rehit may stall one’s spiritual growth beyond a certain point. The rehit of Guru Sahib cannot be substituted by anything. One can’t say that one will do 5 extra Siri Jap jee Sahib paaths and not wear kangha or Kirpan. If we have a genuine majboori (helplessness) then we can perform an ardaas before Siri Guru jee but one can’t say that one can be exempted from a rehit. We can seek forgiveness for dhill in rehit but not seek permanent exemption from a rehit.

The rehit of Sarbloh is an amazing and vital rehit for a Gursikh who is serious about spiritual progress in this janam. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee kept this rehit in jail, even after he had had darshan of Vaheguru. Bhai Sahib kept this rehit in jail for 16-17 years and did not compromise on this rehit or any other rehit. His life is a lesson for all of us that a Sikh must strive to keep rehit.

Having said the above, it is noteworthy that Bhai Sahib understood majbooris of Singhs in not being able to be perfect in keeping rehit. There is a minimum that we must follow as Sardar Singh pointed out i.e. the bibek rehit of not eating from the hands of non-devotees is the absolute minimum that a Gursikh must follow. Anything less than this is just not acceptable.

Kulbir Singh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 11:30AM by admin.

"i.e. the bibek rehit of not eating from the hands of devotees is the absolute minimum that a Gursikh must follow"
Dear Kulbir Singh,I am sure that was a typo i.e. you mean one must only eat from devotees as opposed to not to?
Also if the panj payare don't keep the minimum rehit of eating from amritdharis only ,wether they are sarbloh or not,does it mean their seva of panj payare is not 'suffle' thus the one taking amrit won't get the full benefit?

THere are 2 aspects of gursikhi jeevan
1. simran bibek(abhiyaas of naam/gurbani)
2. rehit bibek( includes physical rehits like avoiding 4 cardinal sins, 5 kakkaar rehit, amritvela, gurmat ishnaan, suchamtayee(cleanliness, purity), dietary bibek, sarbloh bibek, bana, shastar rehit and many more)

The rehit bibek is necessary because:
1. it acts as a catalyst for simran bibek.
2. it helps in preventing loss of naam/bani kamayee.
3. it helps in keeping body clean and healthy, protects us from diseases.
4. it helps in building discipline, without discipline human is no better than animal.

There is no doubt that amritdharis shud be striving hard to keep all rehits which come under rehit bibek. But I feel that this world will become a much better place and the humanity will live a much happier life if people start adopting physical rehits of gursikhi like not cutting hair, eating in sarbloh, keeping proper suchamtayee, doing proper ishnaan daily, wearing simple decent dresses similar to bana etc...

Now the question that whether punj shud be sarblohi singhs or not ?
Well.. the power of an amrit sanchar is directly proportional to:
1. Naam/bani kamayee of singhs doing seva in Punj.
2. maryada in which amrit sanchar is being conducted. This includes prsence of Larivaar saroop, all 5 singhs shud be participating in giving amrit to the seeker etc..
3. Knowledge of simran bibek and rehit bibek aspects posssessed by singhs doing seva in Punj. This includes proper knowledge of gurmat naam abhiyaas kamayeee technique, rehits that come under rehit bibek section.
So if singhs doing seva in punj are not sarblohii, they wont be able to drirra this rehit to abhilaakhii and that will be a loss.Having said that the most important factor is the naam kamayee of singhs doing seva in punj. If there are 2 amrit sanchaars, one in which punj singhs are non-sarblohi but have great naam kamyee and the other in which punj singhs are sarblohi with average naam kamayee, I will prefer to get pesh at former amrit sanchar.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

khalsa jeeo,

it's very diffciult for most people to judge naam kamayee. virla singhs can judge nbaam kamayee - most of us make assumptions about x or y singh.

also, there are many singhs who maharaaj jee has decided to keep invisible in terms of recognition; they have been blessed with the boon of insignificance i.e. they do not attract attention and neither does attention attract them. rangle sajjan gives ample examples of such gurmukhs.

given the above, my personal belief is that one must try their best to attend an anmrit sanchaar where, in their most sincere heart-felt opinion, dasmesh pita jee's maryada is being followed and all of dasmesh pita jee's rehit is instructed to abhilakhees.

to instruct abhilakhees one must follow that rehit otherwise it would be hypocrisy. this is where things get tricky - if a singh doing panj dee seva does not follow a rehit themselves then how can they instruct someone. if they do not follow it themselves then obviously they do not perceive it as it as essential - the best they can do is say to abhilakhees that it is 'optional'. my understanding is that singhs such as bhai randheer singh jee did not believe in this hierarchical categoristation of 'essential' and 'non-essential' rehits.

also, although the panj piyarae's personal naam-kamayee is obviously a major factor, my gut-feeling is that it is not the be-all or end-all when it comes to the kalaa that abhilakhees receive. dasmesh pita jee will act through the panj piyarae as he wishes - they are not in any way a limiting factor when it comes to his kirpa. we cannot limit dasmesh pita jee's capacity.

i think it is hard to talk about anmrit sanchaars - even as an abhilakhee, do we even know what kirpa has been done upon us? kirpa happens in many ways - sometimes guroo jee wants us to know he has done kirpa, sometimes he doesn't want us to know - perhaps because it could affect our ego. the abhilakhee who felt nothing - how does s/he know that millions upon millions of their sins have not just been washed away whereas the abhilakhee who experiences some aatmic ras, how does s/he know that this is not just a tenmporary gain and they have many paaps remaining upon their lekha i.e. to clean from their mind via japping naam?

maharaaj jee is beant. we can only approach him with sincerest intentions and leave the rest in his most merciful hands.

i realise that what i have said above has probably not really moved this thread along much! lol.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

Veer jeeooo,
Abilaakhees who have to start their journey shud not be judging the jeevan of 5 singhs, I agree with that. But abhilaakhiis shud be smart enough to enquire about the organization/ jatha thats organizing the amrit sanchar and doing this, they will indirectly know about the jeevan of 5 singhs. For example, Tapoban Sahib is a very nice gurmat centre with honest jeevan vaale, rehitvaan gursikhs. So these gursikhs will choose the best 5 singhs among themselves for amrit sanchar.So abhilaakhees getting pesh here feel comfortable about the jeevan of 5 singhs.
the jeevan of 5 singhs does matter a lot in Amrit Sanchar( i agree that dashmesh pitaa is sabnaa gallan samrath and can vaartaa HIs kalaa even if there is some dhill left in the amrit sanchar, but there is a limit to this dhill). For example degh(which is panch-amrit), if prepared by a jyot vigaassii, it will have huge assaarr on lucky people eating it. But even if the person preparing degh isnt jyot vigasssi, but is a bhoollaa(thats important), rehitvaan gursikhi, Dashmesh Pita will vartaa His kalaa through the degh. But if there is a chalaak, clever, jeevan-less person who out of haumme wants to make degh, I doubt Dashmesh Pita will bless such a degh. Same argument can be used for khanddee baate da amrit.
Amrit Sanchars ARE THE KEY for the charrdikala of the khalsa panth. I am sure that if jyot vigaasi 5 singhs start doing amrit sanchar with full maryaadaa, our panth will become full of jyot vigaasis and puratan charrdikala will come back.

Some time back, I met an extremely pyareee singh jee(he was so pyaaraa that I dint wish to leave his jaffiiii,lol). He told me that during charan pahul amrit sanchar, dasam duaars used to get open,even during Dashmesh Pita jee's time and even some after than uptill 1750's, opening of dasam duaars was a very very common phenomena. Then things start to get a bit weak, jyot vigaas became common during amrit sanchar, then things started to get more weak and the abhilaakhis just got a very strong naam drirh and used to do some decent kamayeee for jyot vigaas.Then he said right now it has got extremely weak and abhilaakhis dont even get a proper strong enough naam drirh.